I have a few questions about different certifications as well as different certification agencies

[Bent Benny]

I'm sure if I took the time I could find most of this out with google. I've tried to figure out most of this but I just get information overload sifting through information that doesn't pertain to what I am looking for.

So my questions are
1.What is the difference between Master Diver and Dive Master?
2.What sets the different certification agencies apart from one another? I am under the impression that some of them specialize in different types of diving, but I am more concerned with the big ones NAUI,PADI,etc.
3. I am OW certified through NAUI. If I continue more advanced certifications through NAUI and later on want to learn through a PADI instructor, will my certifications be easily transferable? If I do AOW through NAUI then will I be able to take the next step with another agency fairly easily?

 

[rhwestfall]

Master Diver vs. Dive Master: In the case of NAUI, the MSD rating is essentially the Dive Master (knowledge), without the "demonstration quality" skills requirement, without the "how to teach" component, and without the "store side" component (this is how it was explained to me). It is thus not a leadership certification, and you are to have no role in any form of formal instruction and assistance. I have been told it is much different from the PADI Master Diver (from my experiences the PADI rating is "much less").

Differences? One could point out the spelling.... Again, from my experiences, some are more theory based, but honestly, what sets them apart is the person who is teaching you....

Having certifications from multiple agencies really isn't an issue. As an example, I hold certs from YMCA, PDIC, NAUI, SDI/TDI, & PADI (think that is all of them). I have never had issue with crossing agencies while learning. The only place it might be a problem is if I was to seek a Professional Level certification, which at this time, to me, seems unimportant....

 

[Bent Benny]

Ok thanks for clarifying that some. I know I am new to diving and you guys probably see a ton of newbies saying "I'm going to go pro", but I really want to become an instructor so that I can get off the deck of a lobster boat for the winter. The DM who certified me told me that if I continue to log dives at the rate I have been he should be able to take me to instructor level by this winter. I am under the impression that the route I need to take to do this (NAUI) is next AOW, Rescue Diver, MSD, Instructor. Is that correct?

 

[rhwestfall]

Can't help you there, after MSD, I went the Technical path.... (though I think you have it, but missing DM)

see what others have to say.

 

[Gareth J]

Different agencies will treat different qualifications from other agencies differently. Mainly because they are trying to equate them to their own qualifications.

The BSAC (British Sub-Aqua Club), has an equivalents table showing how other agency qualifications match up to BSAC qualifications.
(Document)
This may (or may not) help. These are not direct equivalents - there is some training within the BSAC syllabus that may not have been done by the other agency, similarly, the other agency may have done skills that are not covered until later in the BSAC training scheme.

The lower down the training scheme, the easier to cross backward and forward. i.e. the skills in PADI OW, are not that different from BSAC OD.
i.e Basic skills, buoyancy, mask clearing, regulator retrieval, AAS etc.

At BSAC AD, the skills become much more specialised - planning dive expeditions to unknown sites, using tidal information, charts. Small Boat skills. General Diving skills - no clear surface, mixed gas, decompression dives, wreck, tidal water diving, search and recovery etc. Rescue skills - Deep water diver recovery, incident manager, First Aid, etc.
As such, it is much harder to find a direct equivalent from another agency.

To be fair, I've chopped back and forth from PADI to BSAC with very few problems. Similarly my Tech qualifications have been accepted by each agency with little issue (IANTD, TDI, BSAC).

 

[tbone1004]

to follow up on Gareth since we unfortunately don't have something like BSAC here, is a comparison from SDI
Recreational Sport Diver Equivalences - SDI | TDI | ERDI

Unsurprising *I say this as a NAUI instructor*, NAUI isn't on there but it doesn't really matter. You have to choose who you want to teach with before you go through the instruction route and who you do that with is going to be determined largely by the shop that you are going to be teaching with.

All of the agencies internally have equivalency charts whether published or not, but they all pretty much acknowledge each others certifications.

To answer your questions directly
1. Master Diver is a ego certification that says you did a bunch of specialties and is basically a pat on the back. It's not an actual certification that has specific skills with it.
Dive Master is a leadership role where you are responsible for certified divers, typically as a guide.

2. in the recreational realm they're all basically the same in the US and no one really sticks out from the others. It's all about the instructor and what they're willing to do. Agencies like GUE and UTD stick out, but they're really hard to find any certifications at the recreational level and unfortunately if your goal is to teach with a dive shop, going down that route is only going to lead to frustration when you are forced to use suboptimal gear, configurations, and techniques.

3. At the recreational level you can bounce around really easily. When you are ready to go to leadership is really when you have to choose. PADI's progression is Dive Master, AI, Instructor, then like 4 different variants of instructors. NAUI has AI, Dive Master, Instructor. That's it. So crossing over from NAUI to PADI as an instructor is a lot better than crossing from PADI to NAUI which is a lot more involved. Doesn't make NAUI better, just different.

 

[boulderjohn]

You have to choose who you want to teach with before you go through the instruction route and who you do that with is going to be determined largely by the shop that you are going to be teaching with.

This is the most important message in the thread so far. If you think you want to instruct, you need to determine the agency for which you want to instruct and then see what you have to do to get there from where you are now. It's like asking for driving directions--the first thing you need to know is your destination.

A couple years ago a new instructor complained in the Instructor to Instructor forum that none of the dive shops in his area would hire him as a new instructor. It turned out he had chosen to become certified by a somewhat obscure agency rather than the agencies that any of his area dive shops offered. His complaint was like saying that none of the local Chevrolet dealerships will hire him to sell Fords.

Dive Master is a leadership role where you are responsible for certified divers, typically as a guide.

Just to add, unlike master diver, divemaster is a professional level certification, meaning you can work for pay. Not only can you lead dives, you can assist in instruction. With some agencies, you can do some kinds of instruction by yourself.

 

[boulderjohn]

but I really want to become an instructor so that I can get off the deck of a lobster boat for the winter.

I don't know what this means, so I will forge ahead in ignorance.

Typical agency continuing education charts suggest that the continuing education ladder only points to a final position of instructor. That is not at all true. You can get a box full of certification cards and learn a ton about diving without becoming an instructor. If you are looking to be the best diver you can be, there are better paths. If you want to be a dive professional and teach, then instructor is what you want.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

1. Master Diver is a ego certification that says you did a bunch of specialties and is basically a pat on the back. It's not an actual certification that has specific skills with it.

And this is exactly why I have a problem with being required to get the MSD certification before being allowed to take a DM course. I've done all the required dives. I know there's more physiology and what not to learn but that can all be taught as part of the DM program. I don't for the life of me understand why some agencies (NASE and NAUI in particular) require MSD. It really seems to me like a money grab, although some will certainly disagree. Such is life I guess and I'll take the MSD course because I want to DM for my LDS, which they're well aware of.....but.....I don't like it one bit.

I don't know what this means, so I will forge ahead in ignorance.

I think he means he works on a boat the other three seasons. At least that's how I read that statement.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think he means he works on a boat the other three seasons. At least that's how I read that statement.

I rad it that way, too. I just can't figure out what becoming an instructor has to do with it. If it's the income, you can do better as a greeter at Walmart.