12 boys lost in flooded Thai cave

[Dan]

I had a lot to say about this Rescue on a Facebook page called "Scuba Accidents and Risk Management." But rather than reproduce that post, I will look for a link and post it here. Concerning the USAF Pararescue contribution, take look at this article:

Air Force rescue specialist details 'once in a lifetime' Thai cave rescue

SeaRat

PS: Here is the VSS thread the I also wrote, which gives my input, plus information from Charlie Notthoff, about his participation in the Elon Musk contributions (they had two, not one, contributions).

http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/4797/thai-soccor-team-trapped-water

Thanks for the links.

I have seen FFM with nose plugs for equalization, but this type FFM seems to be designed for the user to breathe normally through the nose & mouth. So, how do you equalize when you go deep in the sump with this type of FFM?

 

[Scuba J7]

Thanks for the links.

I have seen FFM with nose plugs for equalization, but this type FFM seems to be designed for the user to breathe normally through the nose & mouth. So, how do you equalize when you go deep in the sump with this type of FFM?

Not everyone needs to plug their nose in order to equalize.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Thanks for the links.

I have seen FFM with nose plugs for equalization, but this type FFM seems to be designed for the user to breathe normally through the nose & mouth. So, how do you equalize when you go deep in the sump with this type of FFM?

Dan,

I don't know, not having used one, but apparently these kids and the soccor coach got through it okay. That was one reason for me not endorsing the use of FFM though.

SeaRat

 

[Dan]

Not everyone needs to plug their nose in order equalize.

For shallow dive (<15' / 5m), which was seemed to be the case for this rescue, may be fine. I can use throat muscles to pull my eustachian tubes open the way nature intended — by swallowing, but that takes practice & small increment.

 

[JohnnyC]

The Ocean Reef and the OTS masks use a nasal block, albeit different designs. They are adjustable so that they can be tailored to each individual diver. Typically they are adjusted so that the nasal block sits just below the nostrils and the diver presses in and up on the front of the mask to bring the block into contact with the nostrils, blocking the airway, and allowing the diver to equalize using a normal valsalva maneuver. This allows the diver to breathe naturally, and they are able to breathe through their nose or their mouth. Some divers prefer not to have to touch the mask, so they will set their nasal blocks so that they block the nostrils at all times. While this allows for hands free equalizing, it does not allow the diver to breathe through their nose.

The Dräger Panorama uses two squeeze blocks that are connected by a passthrough to the outside of the mask. This makes equalizing similar to how one normally equalizes by squeezing the nostrils, only you squeeze the levers on the outside of the mask, and the pads squeeze your nose, allowing a valsalva maneuver.

As for how the Ocean Reef masks that were used in the Thai rescue were set up, I don't know. The easiest way to allow the kids to equalize without intervention would be to set the nasal block to where it constantly blocks their nasal passages, and they don't have to touch the mask.

 

[Neilwood]

Perhaps the Americans were front and centre with the media in this piece because it is a role they are good at.
Seems like the other major players were less interested in bragging about how wonderful a job they did and trying to slip into the background. The non Americans who wound up fielding the media seemed to be the reluctant ones who spoke for the rest

I've read every link posted here and in a number of other locations and Dr Harris and the Rest of the Aussie team downplay their role. They say the British basically had a plan worked out by the time they got there and it had a few tweaks in meetings as needed. The British divers are the ones who came in with the best Cave rescue training and background. The Ausies also had heaps of experience as well.

The fellow that was listed as Dive operations commander didn't really come across as a knowledgeable diver in Four Corners.

Honestly it seems to be it was a team effort and the Tia Mission Commander did a great job of allowing the right people to do what they were trained and qualified for. A good leader gets the best of his resources by figuring out skills and putting them where they are needed.

Kudos to the entire team. Kudos to the Tia leader who didn't let ego get in his way of pulling a great team together and supporting them

Spot on.

It appears from everything I have read and watched that the Thai mission commander did exactly the right thing - realise where he had no relevant experience and delegate each task to the right people (from exploring top side for possible entrances, pumping, diving logistics etc).

What struck me was that everyone seems to have been very willing to play their part without any squabbles - they all seemed to work out what their role was within the overall scheme and realised that their tasks (even the less heroic contributions such as schlepping tanks) were just as important to the overall outcome and just got on with it.

I have often found that beginners know they have no experience and are happy to admit it and the true experts know they have the skills and experience and don't need to shout about it. It is those in the middle that often are the most vocal about what they can do "Look at me, I am a god" while not actually realising that they aren't.

 

[Jay]

Panel on cards to vet film projects <--Bangkok Post link

"A national committee is likely to be set up to review any film projects involving the 13 Wild Boars and their cave ordeal, Culture Minister Vira Rojpojchanarat said on Thursday.

 

[admikar]

Didn't OTS put out new FFM, I think it's called Spectrum, that is a lot like regular mask, with regulator attached on the bottom, so you just squeeze nostrils like on a regular mask?

 

[Gareth J]

Spot on.

It appears from everything I have read and watched that the Thai mission commander did exactly the right thing - realise where he had no relevant experience and delegate each task to the right people (from exploring top side for possible entrances, pumping, diving logistics etc).

What struck me was that everyone seems to have been very willing to play their part without any squabbles - they all seemed to work out what their role was within the overall scheme and realised that their tasks (even the less heroic contributions such as schlepping tanks) were just as important to the overall outcome and just got on with it.

I have often found that beginners know they have no experience and are happy to admit it and the true experts know they have the skills and experience and don't need to shout about it. It is those in the middle that often are the most vocal about what they can do "Look at me, I am a god" while not actually realising that they aren't.

I have been very impressed by the Thai's.

They didn't try to do it all themselves. As has been said already. They asked for help quickly at the start. They let the experts get on with the job. The government, officials etc where enablers, ensuring all the resources that where needed or requested where made available. Most impressively, they stepped back. Even there politicians kept out of the way during the rescue.
The local's also did everything they could to help, even if that meant just cleaning the toilets.

I have the somewhat jaded view that in most countries the politicians would have been getting as much camera time as they could, and generally getting in the way.

It is so nice to see such a positive outcome.

 

[admikar]

I have been very impressed by the Thai's.

They didn't try to do it all themselves. As has been said already. They asked for help quickly at the start. They let the experts get on with the job. The government, officials etc where enablers, ensuring all the resources that where needed or requested where made available. Most impressively, they stepped back. Even there politicians kept out of the way during the rescue.
The local's also did everything they could to help, even if that meant just cleaning the toilets.

I have the somewhat jaded view that in most countries the politicians would have been getting as much camera time as they could, and generally getting in the way.

It is so nice to see such a positive outcome.

Maybe the king told them to bugger off and let experts do their stuff? Of course, I'm asking on assumption that king has some power in Thailand.