Yes/No requirement for Med form

[tridacna]

@tridacna It’s interesting how you can read a form many times and then read it again and see something you missed before.

“You must complete this Medical Statement, which includes the medical questionnaire section, to enroll in the scuba training program.“ (Underlying added)

To me, FWIW, this sounds like PADI does require the questions be answered since that is the questionaire section.

Not according to PADI. Training department confirmed that a doctor’s sign-off trumps all. No more beating this horse.

 

[KeithG]

I will amend to say that the form I've filled out for Explorer Ventures trips has one multi-question asking you to confirm you are fit to dive and are taking no prescriptions counter-indicative and ask you to confirm by reviewing the RTSC. If you would be unable to answer No to all of those questions, then they want you to submit the doctors note.
To my mind, this is equal to ticking off the items on the form, yes or no.

Yep! They have 1 tiny checkbox with which you affirm you have read the RSTC form and can check NO to every question. They do not want your personal details. This is good.

The bad is that they even ask...

 

[TMHeimer]

This has probably been covered, but though I rarely take charters, I can't recall anyone requiring either a Yes/No PADI med. form (that's for courses, no?) or a Dr.'s note. I could be mistaken.

 

[KeithG]

This has probably been covered, but though I rarely take charters, I can't recall anyone requiring either a Yes/No PADI med. form (that's for courses, no?) or a Dr.'s note. I could be mistaken.

There was a thread a while ago which revealed that it was common for many American (Fla?) dive ops to use the form. At least 1 Coz operator also uses it. None of this was for training...

 

[jlcnuke]

Again, talk to me about it first. I have yet to see one approval yet. Of course, I usually tell peeps that they are ineligible right off.

If you'd really like to see one, I have had 3 different doctors sign off on my medical clearance to dive for classes in the past 14 months despite being an insulin dependent diabetic (once I was away from my PCP and the instructor wouldn't accept the emailed letter from my doctor saying I was fit to dive because it wasn't "on the PADI form" so I got a local doctor to review my records, examine me, and sign off... and both my old and new PCPs have signed off after taking some time to research it themselves).

Understanding my medical condition as I do, I know when I can and can't dive and what to do in order to make sure I'm okay on the dive. I also know when to call the dive (such as on a boat dive when my glucose meter got wet and stopped working so I couldn't monitor my sugar levels between dives so I sat out the second dive, turned out when we got back to my backup meter on shore I was just fine, like I felt, but better safe than sorry).

I also know how different activity levels etc affect my body so I know what to watch out for, when to be more alert for possible changes, and when to call it if there is a reasonable chance I might run into a problem. 99% of problems diabetics have diving are with the exertion of a dive resulting in low sugars well after the dive btw, and that is actually quite easy to manage if you're a responsible diabetic. In fact, if you're a diabetic and plan on doing any significant exercise (pretty much one of the standard "prescriptions" for a diabetic of any type) then you learn how to do all of this or you have issues. Not that I'm saying all diabetics are responsible about controlling and monitoring their sugar levels, but for those of us that are we're probably safer diving than someone who answered "no" to all the questions but is obese and hasn't seen a doctor in 15 years so they can honestly answer no to everything (or likely a good percentage of the people who think they're healthy because they're not obese but haven't been to the doctor in a decade so they don't know about that serious medical condition they've developed).

If your lack of understanding of my condition and how to dive safely with it means you don't want to dive with me though, or teach me classes, that's your choice to make and I'll respect your decision. I've had no problem finding other people to teach me or dive with me thus far so I'll get by just fine and I'm sure you'll still find people to teach and dive with as well.

 

[mmerriman]

Not according to PADI. Training department confirmed that a doctor’s sign-off trumps all. No more beating this horse.

sorry to reopen an old can of worms - but the latest PADI training bulletin states the opposite - can you post your correspondence with them?
Q: A student completes the PADI® Medical Statement and answers “yes” to one question. The student then takes the entire Medical Statement to the doctor to be evaluated and to secure diving fitness approval. The student returns with the doctor’s written approval and signature to dive, but not the questionnaire page the student filled out. What should I do? A: Ask the student to retrieve the questionnaire page for your records. The Medical Statement is one of the three required forms completed by a student and retained by you for at least seven years. If your student provides a signed document from a physician attesting to the student’s fitness to dive (on something other than the PADI Medical Statement), you still need to have the student complete the PADI Medical Statement for your file. This provides baseline information in the event new conditions arise after the doctor visit.

 

[mmerriman]

I don't think you'll find one. The standards only say if there is a YES answer, then a doctor's clearance is needed. There is no standard in the Manual or in 24 years of Training Bulletins that says all (or any, actually) of the questions must be answered, only that a YES answer requires a clearance. So if a student hands me a signed medical, none of the questions are relevant.

until the latest training bulletin - Q: A student completes the PADI® Medical Statement and answers “yes” to one question. The student then takes the entire Medical Statement to the doctor to be evaluated and to secure diving fitness approval. The student returns with the doctor’s written approval and signature to dive, but not the questionnaire page the student filled out. What should I do? A: Ask the student to retrieve the questionnaire page for your records. The Medical Statement is one of the three required forms completed by a student and retained by you for at least seven years. If your student provides a signed document from a physician attesting to the student’s fitness to dive (on something other than the PADI Medical Statement), you still need to have the student complete the PADI Medical Statement for your file. This provides baseline information in the event new conditions arise after the doctor visit.

 

[michael-fisch]

After my last diving accident I had real problems finding one doctor to sign off on my medical fitness for diving, since I had:

type 1 diabetes.
severe DCS II 4 years ago with slight continuing neurological symptoms.
Caustic cocktail inhalation from my RB last summer that caused a week of hospitalisation, damage to my vocal cords, loss of lung capasity, scarring of my esophagus, 6 weeks of rehab and unearthed visable restrictions in veins around my heart.

In order to get an informed OK, I went to my treating ENT Professor, Pneumologist and Cardiologist.
With their OKs I finally went to a Hyperbaric doctor who has signed off on my yearly diving medicals for the last 5-6 years and got an OK on the diving medical form.

With the above complications, how is any 1 doctor able to sign off for the whole body?

Michael

 

[tridacna]

We’re using OLPC 3.0 now. Onus is now on student to complete and provide it themselves. Working pretty well so far.

 

[mscmicrobiology]

Has anyone had a doctor give an OK for this? I haven't and there's no way I would trust a doctor who gave such an OK. I'm not going to teach an insulin dependent individual. I would advise them to find another hobby.

I've had students show up with colds. I'm no doctor, but I'm not going to take a sneezy wheezy individual into a pool where their ears can be injured. I don't care if a doctor gave them an OK or not. I don't need to deal with the potential injury and resultant liability in the pool. It's my decision to continue as their instructor or not. If I don't know how to keep them safe, then I have no business taking them into the water. If I'm not completely comfortable, then I'm not going to try and "wing it".Diving is optional. Safety is not.

Yes. Yes, I would. I'll gladly send them to you. Being my student is not a right afforded to anyone with a credit card. It's a dubious honor at best, but it's nonetheless at my discretion. Here are some reasons I've rejected some students:

• Pregnant
• Couldn't Swim
• Insulin dependent diabetes
• Hurt Achilles
• Under 14
• Hacking smoker
• Racist remarks
• Sexist remarks
• Couldn't read
• Big ego
• Lying

I firmly believe that I'm not the right instructor for many, many people. I'm way OK with that and would rather sever the relationship before we splash. If you noticed, many of those reasons have nothing to do with health.

I am surprised that you allow yourself to dive, given your own rules about ego.

Unlike you, I AM a medical doctor and a Type 1 diabetic. You are stigmatizing all insulin dependant diabetics with you toxic ignorance. Since you clearly have no idea re: the safety of insulin dependant diabetics underwater then you should defer to the physicians that do. The risks of hypoglycaemia can be completely mitigated before you hit the water, especially if you consult with any general practitioner/family medicine physician. Hell, you can even treat hypoglycaemia underwater at 130’ with a simple tube of cake frosting in your BCD or pocket (and yes, I tried it simply for fun...chocolate is the best!). Even with >10 years of diving I have never suffered a hypoglycaemic episode while diving by following a few simple steps beforehand. Contrary to your skewed perspective, and the movie industry (i.e. Con Air), insulin dependant diabetics don’t spontaneously lapse into comas or seizures without warning. Most diabetics, that don’t intentionally overdose on insulin, actually have their glucose slowly climb upwards if they do nothing at all. Even if we didn’t take the few simple steps to guarantee no hypoglycaemia on a dive, most of us can easily feel the initial effects and treat it well before it is an issue. These are things I discuss with all of my insulin dependant diabetics that wish to dive. I even helped one patient get a waterproof insulin pump rated to diving depths.

It is people like you that lead patients to lie on the medical form and subsequently skip coming to their physician to learn the simple ways to make diving safe for them while taking insulin. I am disheartened to see such discrimination. The ego, to think you know better than the patient (who lives with this daily) and especially their physician (who is specially trained to instruct patients about their condition and how it impacts their activity). A physician doesn’t even need to know a thing about diving as the associated risks (drowning) and ways to avoid/mitigate risk (avoid hypoglycaemia) are essentially the same if the patient were simply swimming at the surface.

If there are any insulin dependant divers that would like tips to improve safety in the water, please just send me a private message.