Comparison of the buying online vs local LDS argument

[grf88]

I'm surprised that no one is talking about this: How are you online shoppers going to get your tanks filled when all of the LDSs have gone belly up and no longer pump air if you only spend money at distant ethereal sites?

Unless you are planning on putting a compressor system in your garage, we need to support our LDSs.

For many, or even most divers in large parts of North America it would not be much of an issue because how many people dive locally. Probably no more than 10% and if my area is representative considerably less than that. These divers get their air fills at their resorts or dive charters that need to provide air to support their business. I am sure that Divers Den in Tobermory makes most of its money on charters, rentals and air fills rather than sales of regulators and such. If LDS's could keep their price within 10-12% of online including shipping I don't think they would have any issues from the majority of divers but usually the price spread is significantly more and sometime upwards of 50%.

 

[kelemvor]

Lots of people suggest “buy online” but sometimes the trouble just ain’t worth it.

I’ve been thinking about a pair of LP50s for easier boat SM (bad knees/sciatica mean a twinset is not an option at all).

New tanks are about $675 from my LDS, including left/right SM modular valves with the vindicator knobs I like. Walk in and get them, valves are on, VIP done, they’re filled.

Online: $480 for just tanks from NE Scuba Supply including tax and $40 shipping. Two DGX brand modular valves (no Vindicator knobs) are $78 with free shipping. VIP at shop (includes air fill) $25 x 2. Puts me just around $600.

The convenience of just walking into shop is worth the extra $75 for me.

Yes, I found a used pair here for $400 but seller preferred not to ship and he wanted buyer to send him all packing material for him to ship. Too much of a pita trying to get correct packing materials from a distance. My life is crazy enough that I just don’t want to deal with that.

As others have pointed out, you've got DRIS locally so it's not a fair comparison. I bet you don't fully realize what that means. There's only like 4 online stores, maybe 5 that I'd shop at. DRIS is one of those, and happens to be your LDS. I bet the folks who have scuba.com as their LDS don't understand why other people shop online either. I'd shop at dris, scuba, leisurepro, and amazon for dive gear.

For a while, I used to decide local vs online based on price or availability. Remember LDS typically only stock a handful of brands. If you don't have an LDS selling brand X and you want brand X your only option might be online.

For the past couple years I've come to really appreciate all the extra stuff my LDS does for me. It's a small shop run by the owner. I've often deliberately bought stuff from him and paid considerably more than I could have paid online. When I bought my diverite Nomad XT bcd, I paid $150 more than I could have paid online. I think that was the first time I consciously made the decision to support the local shop when it was a bad financial decision.

But it's a shop that I suspect is barely hanging on. I can call him at 2am and he'll drive in to fill my tanks if needed. He will work on any piece of gear, including modifying it as I need. He'll give all kinds of free advice/training that other shops charge for. For example, when I bought my drysuit from the shop, they charged nothing extra for drysuit training. That includes the instructor going out to blue grotto and doing training/practice dives with it. In the case of the drysuit, I paid the same as I saw online for that suit so I don't think he baked training costs into the price. I'm sure he did make a big profit on a $3500 suit though.

When it came time for warranty work, I brought it to the shop. He boxed and shipped it on his dime (and it's surprisingly heavy). Customer service like that is hard to come by.

 

[Stoo]

For many, or even most divers in large parts of North America it would not be much of an issue because how many people dive locally. Probably no more than 10% and if my area is representative considerably less than that. These divers get their air fills at their resorts or dive charters that need to provide air to support their business. I am sure that Divers Den in Tobermory makes most of its money on charters, rentals and air fills rather than sales of regulators and such. If LDS's could keep their price within 10-12% of online including shipping I don't think they would have any issues from the majority of divers but usually the price spread is significantly more and sometime upwards of 50%.

Understood, but perhaps paying a bit of a premium is the price we pay to be sure we have access to air. After all, it costs real money to maintain a building and pay taxes and so on.

This "problem" isn't unique to the dive industry. Many retailers are feeling the pressure of online competition (and big box stores) and that's going to continue. I buy a lot of books and I suspect 80% come from online retailers. Hell, no business is immune to online juggernauts these days.

The big difference however is the my local bookseller never supplied a product like airfills, so if I don't support them and they close, it has no effect on me. Not so much the dive business.

Your point about "most" divers not diving locally is a valid observation and one I hadn't particularly thought about. I guess I don't really consider once-a-year-vacation-divers "real" divers... ;-)

I suppose on the upside, online retailers tend to help to keep the prices a little lower at our LDS then they might be otherwise.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

I'm fortunate to have a few dive shops in my area. If I can get what I want locally (that's generally the case)...I do so.

 

[JohnnyC]

A large part of it depends on the quality of your LDS. If your LDS demonstrates that they don't want your business, by way of expensive gas fills, unnecessarily large markup, no customer service, etc., then most people have no qualms about buying online, especially large purchases. However if your LDS goes above and beyond to make sure you're taken care of if you have issues, provide service in a timely and reasonable manner, etc., people are far more likely to eat a REASONABLE cost difference.

It's all about VALUE and not necessarily cost. If you don't get good value out of your LDS, it's no wonder that people choose to buy online instead. There's a tipping point somewhere in there, but it's all up to the individual consumer to decide.

 

[fullytek]

I had a discussion this week regarding tanks .
I provided what I thought was a reasonable turn key price including assembly vip sticker and the first o2 fill.
His reply to that price was "I can get it from dive gear express for that much"

So a few points
A Lds should be able to buy Faber tanks for significantly less than Joe public can online. That's up to Faber to correct this behaviour

An online order entering Canada is subject to significantly higher shipping cost, some shipping companies are know to charge hundreds of dollars for brokerage and sales taxes are also added at the border. When you use a Canadian credit card to pay in us dollars a less then favorable exchange rate is used to convert the currency.
Today people are drawn in by the online sticker price but fail to consider the actual landed cost.

I hope the guy orders the tanks from dgx and also hope the ups guy shows up with a handful of sand.

 

[Dogbowl]

I had a discussion this week regarding tanks .
I provided what I thought was a reasonable turn key price including assembly vip sticker and the first o2 fill.
His reply to that price was "I can get it from dive gear express for that much"

So a few points
A Lds should be able to buy Faber tanks for significantly less than Joe public can online. That's up to Faber to correct this behaviour

An online order entering Canada is subject to significantly higher shipping cost, some shipping companies are know to charge hundreds of dollars for brokerage and sales taxes are also added at the border. When you use a Canadian credit card to pay in us dollars a less then favorable exchange rate is used to convert the currency.
Today people are drawn in by the online sticker price but fail to consider the actual landed cost.

I hope the guy orders the tanks from dgx and also hope the ups guy shows up with a handful of sand.

I, for one, am certainly aware of what landed cost means. Despite those crazy close outs on LeisurePro, after I go through checkout (without actually buying), I always get a price that’s more expensive than I can get it locally with taxes. Always.

One of the times I bought something online was from Deep6 because it was the only option for their products. Shipping was approx $USD100 for 2 sets of regs; customs duties and taxes was CAD$400!!! On a Black Friday discounted price! Guess whose not going to buy from outside the country again, unless absolutely necessary?

 

[Stoo]

An online order entering Canada....

In Canada, we have (and by "we" I mean LDSs) the added insult in some cases of a second layer of distributor. I product sold by a US company is sold to the LDS through a Canadian Distributor (who likely contributes nothing to the process... other than push some paper). The "better" shops in southern Ontario where I am all have processes in place to circumvent that, as well as the shipping by using US PO shipping, but then there's a cost for them to pick stuff up and get across the border with it.

 

[stuartv]

I had a discussion this week regarding tanks .
I provided what I thought was a reasonable turn key price including assembly vip sticker and the first o2 fill.
His reply to that price was "I can get it from dive gear express for that much"

I don't understand. If it's the same price from DGX, why would he NOT buy it from you? Especially with you providing his first O2 fill as part of the package?

 

[Dogbowl]

I don't understand. If it's the same price from DGX, why would he NOT buy it from you? Especially with you providing his first O2 fill as part of the package?

Yup, I would’ve jumped at the deal, understanding the constraints of being a diver in Canada.