Search and Rescue - Lasers and Signaling Devices

[Dan]

This is just a case for the strobe I posted earlier. Look closely at the picture.

Right you are. ~ $40 + 9V battery cost is not bad.

 

[Jaydubya]

First: Don’t get lost at sea.

But if you do, your first enemy is hypothermia. Dive a thicker wetsuit than you think you need. Your second enemy is dehydration. You won’t last more than a few days without hydration.

Always have an SMB and do not underestimate the value of a simple flashlight. Great for looking into holes and for signaling at night.

 

[JohnnyC]

IR strobes are pretty pointless unless you're trying to remain hidden from people who don't have IR detection capabilities.

If you're trying to be found, you want to be as visible as possible to anyone looking for you. I get that it's cool to have all the secret squirrel gadgets, but they're a waste in a civilian SAR environment. You're not hiding from a bunch of dudes with AK's waiting for a couple Pedro's to pick you up. You want everything from the coast guard to the oil tanker to uncle bob's deep sea fishing boat to be able to see you. Trust me, you can see non-IR light sources under NOD's as well..... An IR strobe on a recreational dive boat is the equivalent of a 300lb dude wearing an NRA hat and a vest. You're not fooling anybody.

Now, as far lasers are concerned, a <5mW green laser pointer has a NOHD (nominal hazard distance) of approximately 50 feet, ED50 (50/50 chance of the smallest medically detectable change to the retina) is about 17 feet. A green laser pointer like those sold as laser flares or in the dollar store ARE NOT going to damage the eyes of a pilot. However, green LOOKS brighter to the eye than say, red or blue, so automatically a pilot is going to react to it in a less favorable manner than any other means of attracting their attention. Pilots also tend to be pretty averse to liability. If you hit a plane with a laser and the pilot has any reaction to it whatsoever (essentially if they notice), they're going to declare an emergency if for no other reason than to cover their bases in the even that there is some sort of issue. I say this as a person who has personally held variances for lasers up to 40W in locations where the FAA is on speed dial and someone is getting paid good money to sit on the relevant local ATC frequencies with a sectional and big big red kill switch.

The biggest problem is that because the only person who knows the laser output is the person being stupid with the laser, everyone has to treat it like it's a worst case scenario. The truth is that the hazard to aircraft is MASSIVELY overstated, and the physics back that up. However the exceptions are what makes the appropriate response the same whether it's a little handheld or a laser that requires a tanker truck of water for cooling.

 

[BRT]

IR strobes are pretty pointless unless you're trying to remain hidden from people who don't have IR detection capabilities.

If you're trying to be found, you want to be as visible as possible to anyone looking for you. I get that it's cool to have all the secret squirrel gadgets, but they're a waste in a civilian SAR environment. You're not hiding from a bunch of dudes with AK's waiting for a couple Pedro's to pick you up. You want everything from the coast guard to the oil tanker to uncle bob's deep sea fishing boat to be able to see you. Trust me, you can see non-IR light sources under NOD's as well..... An IR strobe on a recreational dive boat is the equivalent of a 300lb dude wearing an NRA hat and a vest. You're not fooling anybody.

Now, as far lasers are concerned, a <5mW green laser pointer has a NOHD (nominal hazard distance) of approximately 50 feet, ED50 (50/50 chance of the smallest medically detectable change to the retina) is about 17 feet. A green laser pointer like those sold as laser flares or in the dollar store ARE NOT going to damage the eyes of a pilot. However, green LOOKS brighter to the eye than say, red or blue, so automatically a pilot is going to react to it in a less favorable manner than any other means of attracting their attention. Pilots also tend to be pretty averse to liability. If you hit a plane with a laser and the pilot has any reaction to it whatsoever (essentially if they notice), they're going to declare an emergency if for no other reason than to cover their bases in the even that there is some sort of issue. I say this as a person who has personally held variances for lasers up to 40W in locations where the FAA is on speed dial and someone is getting paid good money to sit on the relevant local ATC frequencies with a sectional and big big red kill switch.

The biggest problem is that because the only person who knows the laser output is the person being stupid with the laser, everyone has to treat it like it's a worst case scenario. The truth is that the hazard to aircraft is MASSIVELY overstated, and the physics back that up. However the exceptions are what makes the appropriate response the same whether it's a little handheld or a laser that requires a tanker truck of water for cooling.

Thank you. I knew that there couldn't be any real danger at long range or people would be blinded all the time. With so many of them around all the cats would have white canes.

 

[Dan]

Never mind about IR beacon & laser then.

Why would ACR RescuQlink 400 add IR beacon?

 

[MichaelMc]

Never mind about IR beacon & laser then.

I’m not sure no laser is the conclusion.

Pointing the laser AT the SAR bird may doom you, is a clear conclusion.

 

[Dan]

I ended getting the regular 9v LED light with 150' depth waterproof case. This LED light has 2 level brightness soft for 600 hours life & bright for 30 hours life. I just strap it on my BCD shoulder strap & turn it on whenever needed.

 

[Scuba Cobra]

IR strobes are pretty pointless unless you're trying to remain hidden from people who don't have IR detection capabilities.

If you're trying to be found, you want to be as visible as possible to anyone looking for you. I get that it's cool to have all the secret squirrel gadgets, but they're a waste in a civilian SAR environment. You're not hiding from a bunch of dudes with AK's waiting for a couple Pedro's to pick you up. You want everything from the coast guard to the oil tanker to uncle bob's deep sea fishing boat to be able to see you. Trust me, you can see non-IR light sources under NOD's as well..... An IR strobe on a recreational dive boat is the equivalent of a 300lb dude wearing an NRA hat and a vest. You're not fooling anybody.
.

Both strobes I posted work on both visible and IR spectrums.

That is great if you live or have a vacay home outside the US or always stay in the US. More problematic if you are US based and travel elsewhere.

Don't make it a bigger deal than it needs to be. If it makes you feel better, get a "civilian" LED light for a 9v. It's the same thing without the evil scary ITAR label.

 

[JohnnyC]

Both strobes I posted work on both visible and IR spectrums.




Don't make it a bigger deal than it needs to be. If it makes you feel better, get a "civilian" LED light for a 9v. It's the same thing without the evil scary ITAR label.

Sure, if you purchase the visible spectrum version. None of the Phoenix Jr. IR beacons (9v and 123 models) I own have any visible spectrum output. They are IR only. Cejay offers versions of them in the visible spectrum.

If one wants to be tacticool as well as carrying something that would be more useful, the Velux with an S-O-S pattern flash would be more appropriate.

And just to give some perspective, my father flew sandy missions throughout SW Asia since the mid-90's, and we've spent plenty of time discussing this sort of stuff, he's what I would consider a subject matter expert when it comes to military airborne SAR operations because he's done it for years. I couldn't tell you how drastically different civilian airborne SAR operations are, but considering you're much less worried about any kind of signature alerting someone to your presence, and in fact are actively trying to alert EVERYONE to your presence, the idea that a civilian would specifically seek out IR-based signaling solutions to affect their rescue is the utilitarian equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot to scratch an itch.

ETA: For anybody that doesn't know, Sandy is CSAR, combat search and rescue. All the joys of normal search and rescue but the guy is harder to find and people are shooting at you.

 

[Jay]

Seems like we have a need and a chance for better SAR device for divers. A slim PLA+PLB+?+ a high capacity battery = how much? How many minimum units? Who knows where similar devices are made in China. We need ?1k? units at Y$ distributed with no wholesale or retail etc markup. We each accept a warrantless product. It might even be an 'unauthorised device' not certified etc etc. As long as it works. I know this is a gross simplification but perhaps we need to think out of the box?

Or we ask one of the current similar device like manufactures to do it for us? For sure we can get the $ and numbers just from SB.