Carnival Cruise Lines

[Skittl1321]

Carnival Corporation owns the following lines:
AIDA
Carnival Cruise Line
Costa Cruises
Cunard Line
Holland America Line
P&O Cruises
P&O Cruises Australia
Princess Cruises
Seabourn Cruise Line

Thank you for posting this. This is not just about Carnival Cruise Lines. It is about the practices of Carnival Corporation. It is easy to confuse the two.

 

[deepsea21]

This is nothing new. Cruise lines have been fined over and over again and put on probationary periods and such. At the end of the day, there isn't a court that is going to ban Carnival from docking at US ports. There are far too many domestic jobs tied to the cruise industry in our ports so shutting down Carnival from docking in US ports will NEVER EVER happen. This is just a warning shot placed over the bow of Carnival and this warning shot is probably already making a financial impact on Carnival in terms of future bookings. This will die and go nowhere.

This reminds me of those who are "above the law" being the government as a friend of mine who served on a NAVY ship. He told me that when he served dumping certain items in deep sea was based on the type of US based vessel but "dumping" meant different things between the private and government sectors. He told me his Navy ship did daily dumps of absolutely everything. On the military's priority list, protecting the environment was certainly not a primary directive and not even mentioned... It was all about maintaining superior defense capabilities. He told me about huge bags of trash that were dumped daily and were used by the rear gunners on his ship for daily machine gun target practice to sink them. Shooting at floating trash daily was far cheaper than putting a drone tow boat out to shoot at. Dumping bilge water and oil? I think we can all rest assured that goes on to this day by our NAVY... We have ships that leave for several months on a deployment without ever docking that rack up 100's of thousands of miles of travel on a deployment. It's not like they are pulling that ship into a Jiffy Lube for an oil change. According to him, oil dumps were performed at night (he was a machinist so he would have been aware of some of this stuff) and who on a Navy ship in night running conditions would ever see what was being is dumped?

 

[2airishuman]

I can't believe that they are still allowed to dump in "open waters". That's analogous to saying that once you leave town you can dump all your garbage & sewage anywhere. Geez

Where do you dump your garbage and sewage? There is no "away." Flush a toilet, and in most cases the waste ends up being processed to some degree, and dumped into a river or lake or ocean, with some of the solids spread on land.

Regulations specify what can be dumped, how, and where. 3 miles offshore and away from sensitive areas, there's no valid reason from a standpoint of the environment to refrain from dumping organic waste from which plastic, glass, oil, etc., have been separated.

 

[2airishuman]

Dumping bilge water and oil? I think we can all rest assured that goes on to this day by our NAVY... We have ships that leave for several months on a deployment without ever docking that rack up 100's of thousands of miles of travel on a deployment. It's not like they are pulling that ship into a Jiffy Lube for an oil change. According to him, oil dumps were performed at night (he was a machinist so he would have been aware of some of this stuff) and who on a Navy ship in night running conditions would ever see what was being is dumped?

Modern ships have oil separators, either oil-absorbing filters or centrifugal separators. And tankage for waste oil. There are waste oil tanker services in all major ports.

Was your friend's experience recent? Because while this was common decades ago, I do not believe it is common today.

 

[Carlos Diver]

Question - Just how much experience do you have obtaining a stay of a Federal District Court’s injunction? Because if you can get it stayed in 10 minutes after it’s entry, you are either the world’s best lawyer or you have a wizard’s wand worthy of Harry Potter.

How long it would actually take depends entirely upon which Circuit Court of Appeals Carnival would have to go to, and what 3-judge panel it drew. Still, just because of the procedural steps that Carnival would be required to take, FIRST seeking a stay of the injunction from the District Court, getting that request denied, THEN filing the appeal in the Circuit Court, waiting for the Clerk to assign the case to a panel (which the Clerk typically won’t do until the opposing side has an opportunity to file a response), getting the panel to hear the case and decide, etc., getting the injunction stayed in less than 2 weeks would probably take a miracle. More likely is AT LEAST 30 days or more. And that could really hurt Carnival, both in lack of bookings, required refunds to already booked passengers, and loss of goodwill.

Enough to know you dont need to be Harry Potter, nor do you need a three-judge panel. Carnival and its army of Ivy League attorneys will file for an emergency stay of the ruling with the Court of Appeals under rule 8 (a) (2) (d). (hint, that means a judgement can be delivered by a single judge, not a three-judge panel, without the opposing side having time to prepare a rebuttal). It will be heard and granted that day (especially if a Carnival ship is being denied entry to a US port) not in a week or a month. Because of not only the time sensitivity, but the impact of 100s of millions of dollars and the company's reputation being at stake, as well the potential for thousands of Americans to be denied re-entry into their own country.

Another way to easily understand this, how do you think people are able to file and get injunctions every election day in courts all the over the country? They dont wait a month, they get their injunction that day. While that isnt an appeal, the process is similar. We have rules in place to ensure if something is time sensitive, like a ship with 3000 Americans on-board being denied entry to a US port, it gets handled that day, not a month down the road.

I know people want to go after Big Carnival, but this isnt happening. No Carnival ship with thousands of US citizens is going to be denied entry to a US port and left to drift in the Atlantic, Gulf or Caribbean Sea. Its laughable to even think that will happen.

 

[ggunn]

Gasp! Do you mean that moneyed interests use their economic clout to game the system in order to benefit themselves? I'm appalled!

 

[deepsea21]

Was your friend's experience recent? Because while this was common decades ago, I do not believe it is common today.

No, it wasn't recent. He served on the USS Saipan that was decommissioned in 2007. He didn't tell me the years he was aboard the ship but I researched it and I and see it was launched in 1974. If I were to guess he served on it in the mid 80's as he talked about being off Grenada in 1983-1984 when that was hitting the fan. He passed a few years ago. So, what he shared with me from what I can gather was what the Navy was doing 35 or so years ago. As such, has the Navy has changed its practices today?

I am not one to believe we have a "Green" Navy or a "Green" military in general. What about rounds made of depleted uranium (only us nuclear countries have such rounds) that we sprayed across the entire mid east because it was and is the ultimate "heavy" round that can pierce any armor. The shrapnel from those rounds that hit and those that missed is everywhere over there. I'm not saying that was wrong because when a country is at war one fights to win but what I am saying is the military cares less about the environment. We have the EPA that cares about the environment and we have the military that provides a curtain of safety that allows the EPA to exist... As such, the military comes first.

 

[DjDiverDan]

Enough to know you dont need to be Harry Potter, nor do you need a three-judge panel. Carnival and its army of Ivy League attorneys will file for an emergency stay of the ruling with the Court of Appeals under rule 8 (a) (2) (d). (hint, that means a judgement can be delivered by a single judge, not a three-judge panel, without the opposing side having time to prepare a rebuttal). It will be heard and granted that day.

You are ignoring the fact that this is not a civil proceeding, but a criminal contempt proceeding for Carnival’s willful violation of a consent order. As a criminal matter, Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 8(a) does not apply. To seek the stay of a sentence in a criminal proceeding, you must look to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 38. See FRAP 8(c).