Most useful specialty courses

[Storker]

As for the courses, if you pass every course you take, they’re either too easy or you’re very good.

I disagree.

A student who enrolls on a course they have the necessary prerequisites for should be able to pass if the course is good enough, the instructor is good enough the student is good enough and they do the amount of work which is expected. "Very good" is only necessary if one or more of the other elements in the equation isn't up to standard.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The only course that taught me to be a better diver was Fundies. Rescue was great too, but is a totally different focus. The rest were what I would call "certification courses". They existed to get the card, not particularly learn anything.

I’ve wondered how to best describe the difference between fundies and the other courses I’ve taken. What you said States it perfectly.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I disagree.

A student who enrolls on a course they have the necessary prerequisites for should be able to pass if the course is good enough, the instructor is good enough the student is good enough and they do the amount of work which is expected. "Very good" is only necessary if one or more of the other elements in the equation isn't up to standard.

Most courses, students do the skill once, and if they don’t drown while doing it, the box gets checked as the student “mastered” it and they move on.

 

[EireDiver606]

Most courses, students do the skill once, and if they don’t drown while doing it, the box gets checked as the student “mastered” it and they move on.

Whether people like it or not, what you are saying is true. I’ve done a few PADI courses and the instructors I had were all very good except one. Hell, most of them even taught me extra skills in the course that weren’t necessary like how to shoot smb and basic uw navigation on my OW. They were above most instructors out there and yet still they did not provide a great course as much as fundies or equivalent. It wasn’t the instructors fault, it is how the course is designed. The low fee, easiness, and relaxed mindset is why it attracts many people not because they’re good.

QUOTE="Storker, post: 8639420, member: 416742"]I disagree.

A student who enrolls on a course they have the necessary prerequisites for should be able to pass if the course is good enough, the instructor is good enough the student is good enough and they do the amount of work which is expected. "Very good" is only necessary if one or more of the other elements in the equation isn't up to standard.[/QUOTE]

The whole idea of GUE IMO is that you have to be ready to take the courses. Taking tech 1 is a big leap and if you’re not ready for it, the instructors not going to hold you’re hand and pass you even if you’ve spent 2k on it. If he did that, you wouldn’t be up to the standard that is safe and critical not just for those dives but for any emergency that happens during them.

I understand where you’re coming from about courses should make you pass and all that but sometimes, they shouldn’t because the instructor doesn’t have time to teach you longer than he already has. Besides GUE classes are long and hard 8am - 6-8pm generally.

Here’s an analogy:
The military offers courses to be proficient, in, let’s say the use of a heavy machine gun - it’s easy, you will be able to pass it because it doesn’t require much muscle memory or mental capacity or intelligence. But you still need instruction to use it safely, competently, and most efficiently without misusing it. Now, on the other end of the spectrum, there is Special Forces qualifications courses. You need: lots of motivation to be there because of the **** you go through mentally and physically, intelligence, physical and mental fitness and courage, etc. Those courses do not pass people easily for a reason. They have a high standard and are very difficult. If you’re ready for one of those courses, you fail,not because the instructor can’t get you up to it, but because you probably don’t have it in you, yet...
(I’m not comparing GUE or equivalent to the military sf- it’s just an analogy .

 

[Storker]

I understand where you’re coming from about courses should make you pass

You have completely misunderstood me.

"Courses" shouldn't "make" anyone pass. But if you have the necessary prerequisites, aren't clueless and put in the required amount of work (which isn't the same for every student), a well-designed course with a decent instructor should give you the skills which are necessary to pass.

 

[Ryan Neely]

The original topic of this post was of interest to me. I, too, am interested in furthering my skills. My first step, of course, is simply to get in more dives. That being said, the digression this thread has taken also intrigues me. I'm interested in GUE Fundamentals (though, not to the exclusion of other training), but in reading through the thread, a question has percolated in my brain.

It appears that (for your standard vacation diver like this thread's original poster, @Jryan1204 ) the equipment configuration for Fundies might be a bit off-putting. Just in talking with the local divers in my area, the idea of diving back plate and wing or long hose primary is akin to suggesting you replace your carburetor with a jack-in-the-box. (Seriously, some of the looks I get when asking about these kinds of configurations are priceless.)

So, my question is, if somebody with an open water or advanced open water certification (and only a handful of dives) was interested in taking the Fundies course, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this without re-configuring your "vacation" gear, or am I missing something?

[Note: I full understand the theory behind the benefits of such a configuration, but find it difficult to justify (or convince my buddy/wife to change) a "base" setup until much later in our diving careers.]

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You have completely misunderstood me.

"Courses" shouldn't "make" anyone pass. But if you have the necessary prerequisites, aren't clueless and put in the required amount of work (which isn't the same for every student), a well-designed course with a decent instructor should give you the skills which are necessary to pass.

Students often need to practice to become proficient at a skill. That’s one thing I liked about fundies. You have rigorous lessons and you know what to work on to meet the pass criteria. There isn’t always a need for an instructor to watch a student practice.

 

[Storker]

Students often need to practice to become proficient at a skill.

You don't say?

Take a college class. A real one. You won't pass unless you work for it. Same for a proper scuba class.

You don't have to be "very good", but you have to realize that not all things in life are free. Some things in life require work.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You don't say?

Take a college class. A real one. You won't pass unless you work for it. Same for a proper scuba class.

You don't have to be "very good", but you have to realize that not all things in life are free. Some things in life require work.

Considering the length of most con ed courses (2 to 4 dives), you think that's sufficient to learn new skills most of the time? I don't, unless there is a really low performance bar.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've done Wreck, Deep, Nav, Night, Nitrox, Wreck and Fundies. The only course that taught me to be a better diver was Fundies. Rescue was great too, but is a totally different focus. The rest were what I would call "certification courses". They existed to get the card, not particularly learn anything.

It's too bad you got a poor instructor(s) for your certifications, he should have worked on your basic skills as well as those needed for the course. As for becoming a better diver, PPB is the only one that would be comparable, and you passed on that for whatever reason.

"Courses" shouldn't "make" anyone pass. But if you have the necessary prerequisites, aren't clueless and put in the required amount of work (which isn't the same for every student), a well-designed course with a decent instructor should give you the skills which are necessary to pass.

The only prerequisites, that I've seen, is to be a diver, want to take the class, and think one will be able to pass after instruction. The issue is that self selection to take the class is not indicative of any skill level. Know your limitations.

It seems to me that if a required measurable skill level is necessary to pass, there is a time limit to the class, and both the student and instructor do their best, I can't find any reason the student should pass if they don't meet the requirements.



Bob