Most useful specialty courses

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As for becoming a better diver, PPB is the only one that would be comparable, and you passed on that for whatever reason.

Bob,

This is from the PADI PPB instructor guide found here: https://elearning.padi.com/company0/tools/peak performance buoyancy.pdf

Can you tell me what from the excerpt below shouldn't already been covered in a properly taught open water course? It seems to me that PPB is to compensate for a poor, on the knees, open water course.

Confined water
1. Directly from the hover, have divers swim midwater to the outside edge of the pool (or a specific point) with their buddy. From there, divers swim underwater from deep to shallow next to the pool wall (or along a designated course.) During the swim, divers adjust for neutral buoyancy, concentrate on an efficient
kicking style, practice gliding after kicks and streamline their body/equipment as much as possible. Explain that the goal is to complete two trips around the pool (or designated course) without any part of their body or equipment touching the bottom or breaking the surface.
2. Divers swim through an obstacle course with weighted PVC pipe, HulaHoops or other devices. Direct divers to try to swim through the obstacles without touching them.
3. Divers simulate a safety stop by hovering midwater for three minutes.
4. Divers practice one or more of the following: 1) One-finger push-offs off
the pool bottom or nonfragile bottom. 2) Sculling forward and backward using minimal hand or fi n movement. 3) Dropping weights at the surface. Use soft weights if possible. Be cautious of divers under the weights and of damaging the pool or fragile bottom. Have divers with weight-integrated BCDs reload weights following the manufacturer’s instructions.
Dive One
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather).
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques prior to the dive to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and, if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Adjust for neutral buoyancy at a predetermined depth.
• Hover for 60 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Make minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba).
• Swim horizontally, while neutrally buoyant without touching the bottom or breaking the surface of the water with equipment or body.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding.
• Adjust weights (trim) and practice hovering in different positions – vertical, horizontal, feet slightly elevated and head slightly elevated.
• Conduct a postdive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
Dive Two
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind: 1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather), or based on experience from previous dives.
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a pre- and post-dive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding after each kick.
• Hover for 90 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fi n sculling only (rebreathers).
• Flood and clear your mask while holding a specific hover depth and compensating for sudden buoyancy changes (rebreather divers only).
• Maneuver as close to a nonliving portion of the bottom (rock, sand, etc.) without touching it and then back away using neutral buoyancy with hand or fin sculling.

 

[Bob DBF]

Can you tell me what from the excerpt below shouldn't already been covered in a properly taught open water course? It seems to me that PPB is to compensate for a poor, on the knees, open water course.

Never said it shouldn't have been taught, and learned, in OW. I dont know what the PPB dives cover, however the overall goal of better buoyancy control and propulsion is the same objective as fundies. So the comparison of other certs to fundies, especially Nitrox which requires no dives, would not be a fair comparison of basic diving skills to be taught.


I am not a fan of GUE, UTD, and DIR in general, however it has not stopped me from picking up some gear and configuration choices. If I was at the beginning of my diving instead of the end... Lastly, I would be a lot less worried being instabuddied with a diver from one of those disciplines, as they will know a lot more about being a good buddy than those I have seen.


Bob

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Never said it shouldn't have been taught, and learned, in OW. I dont know what the PPB dives cover,

That's why I included copy and pastes from the instructor guide to show exactly what is included.

however the overall goal of better buoyancy control and propulsion is the same objective as fundies.

Not really. It is like comparing time trials you'll get between a Ferrari and a Yugo. They simply are not in the same class.

So the comparison of other certs to fundies, especially Nitrox which requires no dives, would not be a fair comparison of basic diving skills to be taught.

I am not a fan of GUE, UTD, and DIR in general, however it has not stopped me from picking up some gear and configuration choices. If I was at the beginning of my diving instead of the end... Lastly, I would be a lot less worried being instabuddied with a diver from one of those disciplines, as they will know a lot more about being a good buddy than those I have seen.

The best advice I received before I took fundies from a GUE diver was "You don't have to drink the Kool Aid, just focus on the skills." And that's exactly what I did. The GUE system doesn't work for me as I dive solo, dive air very often. But I am grateful for finally having a solid skills course which dramatically improved my diving skills.

 

[Bob DBF]

That's why I included copy and pastes from the instructor guide to show exactly what is included.

Over the years I've seen a lot added to and/or missing from training, the instructor guide is a guide, not necessarily what a student will experience.

It looks like the AOW class PPB dive I took covered most all of the PPB class guide.

Not really. It is like comparing time trials you'll get between a Ferrari and a Yugo. They simply are not in the same class.

May be even more reason to make the comparison.



Bob

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Over the years I've seen a lot added to and/or missing from training, the instructor guide is a guide, not necessarily what a student will experience.

PADI is pretty strict about what is required for a class. No one can add performance requirements to course (you can with other agencies, SSI has a process, SDI & NAUI trust instructors to be reasonable, can't speak for others). You can still add stuff, but in the case of an incident, you will have no agency support as you deviated from their program.

 

[loosenit2]

This thread has gone completely off the rails. It is time to revisit what the OP asked and keep the thread focused rather than indulging these individual arguments.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This thread has gone completely off the rails. It is time to revisit what the OP asked and keep the thread focused rather than indulging these individual arguments.

If you are referring to Bob and I, we are having a discussion. I’d be more than happy to have a beer with him after a dive.

 

[EireDiver606]

You have completely misunderstood me.

"Courses" shouldn't "make" anyone pass. But if you have the necessary prerequisites, aren't clueless and put in the required amount of work (which isn't the same for every student), a well-designed course with a decent instructor should give you the skills which are necessary to pass.

I meant to say help.

 

[Bob DBF]

This thread has gone completely off the rails.

You must be new here, I've been off the rails before and it's a lot different than this. At least we are still discussing the same topic although the details discussed may or may not be as interesting to the OP than others in the thread.



Bob

 

[TMHeimer]

Just my 2 cents. I think there are a select few specialties that apply to diving in general. NAV for sure, S&R probably (you'll lose something eventually), PPB (with the right instructor and if needed), Wreck (advanced courses if you desire to penetrate), obviously Cava/Cavern if you're into that, Deep (probably not necessary but can't hurt), Nitrox if it will apply to your diving. Beyond that I would think that other stuff is useful only if it enhances your specific diving (ie. photo, video, etc.).
Oh, Rescue goes on top, but (at least PADI) doesn't classify that as a Specialty (nor would I, as I think everyone should have it).