Air in eanx marked tank?

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I think most of us want air to BS8478 which has slightly lower figures for Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide and Hydrocarbons, than BS12021

I believe the figures are

Oil (mg·m-3) <0.01 (Nitrox) compared to <0.5 (Breathing Air)
Carbon dioxide (ppm) ≤400 (Nitrox) compared to ≤500 (Breathing Air)
Carbon monoxide (ppm) ≤3 (Nitrox) compared to ≤15 (Breathing Air)

BS8478 covers everything from Nitrox (Nitrogen/Oxygen), Heliox (Helium/Oxygen), Trimix (Helium/Nitrogen/Oxygen).
 
In the old days (pre double filtering)
Huh.

My club's compressor has two filter stacks. I guess we might call our gas "double filtered". For all the time I've been in the responsibility loop for that compressor, we've considered the first filter the "real" filter and the second just a backup in case we messed up on time between filter changes. Every analyses we've had (once a year), our air has been well within standards for nitrox compatible.
 
So... What you say is that whenever I switch from 32% to 28% to 30% to 36% I have to change the band?

Not very likely
no they are all nitrox and the comon issue is the grade E Hyper air that is used in all the nitrox mixes. The band says teh contents are no less than hyp E nitrox in all its forms.
 
I went and spoke to Bob at lunch. What Buckled Plates found is indeed shop rules. If you have a nitrox tank, they will put in nitrox and only nitrox. If you have a tank not labeled, they will put in air only. If you want air in a nitrox tank, they will drain the tank, remove the sticker, and fill it with air. They do not do nitrox 21, or any blend they don't bank.

Their shop, their rules.
Technacally they are right if they have 2 whips one with E air in it and another with Hyp E in it and the hyp E is not used for anything but nitrox. Either way you can not argue with the shop. I have had a shop say if i wanted air in a nitrox tank they would have to scrape the nitrox band and remove the vis sticker and revis to verify it could, after nitrox, be filled with air. There is a lot of BS all over. The owner of that shop did not even know how good his air was only it was good enough for scuba adn had to ask what hyp E was.
 
BP...

There is no regulation...

Some shops that are performing partial pressure fills...have two banks...one bank for air...and one ''hyper-filtered'' bank for NITROX/other mixed gas fills...

If they fill your O2 cleaned/NITROX banded tanks from the ''air'' bank...you tanks will require O2 cleaning before they can be filled with NITROX blends again...

If you've got O2 cleaned tanks...with NITROX bands...and you only want an air fill...fills should be from the hyper-filtered bank...

I used to do this all the time...

This way your tanks will stay O2 cleaned...

Any time you want 21% in O2 cleaned tanks you should always ask if their ''air'' bank is hyper-filtered NITROX compatible...

There are likely hundreds of divers in the field with O2 cleaned/NITROX banded tanks that are no longer O2 cleaned because of non-hyper-filtered 21% fills...

Warren...
100% correct.
 
Huh.

My club's compressor has two filter stacks. I guess we might call our gas "double filtered". For all the time I've been in the responsibility loop for that compressor, we've considered the first filter the "real" filter and the second just a backup in case we messed up on time between filter changes. Every analyses we've had (once a year), our air has been well within standards for nitrox compatible.
your second filter increases dwell time and improves the filtering. the first probably does moisture removal and the second is CO CO2 and Hydrocarbons.
The air in that system is probably low dew point (compressor size dependant) and HYP E grade. The larger the compressor CFM the more filtering you need.
 
If a facility supplies Nitrox via P.P. filling then they must have 'clean air'. For those facilities, I can't understand why they would have an issue filling an O2 clean cylinder with air, from the 'clean air' system.

For those only supplying Nitrox via a banked Nitrox supply. I am slightly puzzled why they wouldn't also have a 'clean air' supply. The investment for clean air is minimal when compared to the costs of supplying banked Nitrox.
If they don't have clean air, then if they do fill a cylinder off the dirty air supply, then I can understand them removing the Nitrox banding and O2 clean labelling.

For those that don't supply Nitrox, then it is not entirely surprising that they don't have a clean air supply.

When I started using Nitrox, it wasn't a mainstream gas. Access to 'clean air' was an issue. Now Nitrox is even included in some agencies initial diving qualification. As such clean air is readily available.
Popularity and a demand has changed the industry in the UK. Also, I think the shops didn't liked being listed as a facility that provided 'dirty air' rather than 'clean air'.
We used to have a facility locally, who would provide Nitrox by pp. But they had the stupid rule that they wouldn't fill O2 clean cylinders with (clean) air, if they did they removed the O2 clean label, and the Nitrox banding. Our club stopped using them (- it was only a small percentage of the club who where using Nitrox, but they lost all the business). I can't remember the last time any one I know had a fill from them. I don't know if they still have this policy. But the initial policy cost them business, and has continued to cost them business.

One other option - which if the shop is that inflexible potentially won't help.
We used to carry personal filters. When filling at unknown air stations (e.g. boat compressors), or remote facilities. We fitted our personal filters to the cylinders and filled through the personal filter.

In the last 10 years, or possibly longer, I can't remember an issue in the UK when filling an O2 clean cylinder with air. The impression I get is that the vast majority of those providing gas to divers now by default have 'clean air'.
That includes the boats that have on board compressors. The only thing we double check these days is the availability of Nitrox and H.P. O2 for those using rebreathers.
We dived the Scilly Isles last year. There is NO O2 available on the island other than medical. (No Nitrox, no O2 for CCR.) ALL the air is 'clean air'! (We took prefilled cylinders with Nitrox, that where topped off with air during the week, and spare O2 cylinders for my rebreather.)

Ultimately we changed the industry by choosing who to spend our money with, and word of mouth. Don't use X, they only do dirty air. Use Y they are helpful, and will air top your Nitrox.
 
there is no DOT regulations about it, so ask them to show you the regulations they are talking about.

Nitrox stickers are dumb and it's super annoying that dive shops still insist on them.
This is like asking a cop to produce a statute reference when he lies to you about a law. You’ve already lost the battle when they spout bs, escalate and you loose the war.
 
If a facility supplies Nitrox via P.P. filling then they must have 'clean air'. For those facilities, I can't understand why they would have an issue filling an O2 clean cylinder with air, from the 'clean air' system.

For those only supplying Nitrox via a banked Nitrox supply. I am slightly puzzled why they wouldn't also have a 'clean air' supply. The investment for clean air is minimal when compared to the costs of supplying banked Nitrox.
If they don't have clean air, then if they do fill a cylinder off the dirty air supply, then I can understand them removing the Nitrox banding and O2 clean labelling.

For those that don't supply Nitrox, then it is not entirely surprising that they don't have a clean air supply.

When I started using Nitrox, it wasn't a mainstream gas. Access to 'clean air' was an issue. Now Nitrox is even included in some agencies initial diving qualification. As such clean air is readily available.
Popularity and a demand has changed the industry in the UK. Also, I think the shops didn't liked being listed as a facility that provided 'dirty air' rather than 'clean air'.
We used to have a facility locally, who would provide Nitrox by pp. But they had the stupid rule that they wouldn't fill O2 clean cylinders with (clean) air, if they did they removed the O2 clean label, and the Nitrox banding. Our club stopped using them (- it was only a small percentage of the club who where using Nitrox, but they lost all the business). I can't remember the last time any one I know had a fill from them. I don't know if they still have this policy. But the initial policy cost them business, and has continued to cost them business.

One other option - which if the shop is that inflexible potentially won't help.
We used to carry personal filters. When filling at unknown air stations (e.g. boat compressors), or remote facilities. We fitted our personal filters to the cylinders and filled through the personal filter.

In the last 10 years, or possibly longer, I can't remember an issue in the UK when filling an O2 clean cylinder with air. The impression I get is that the vast majority of those providing gas to divers now by default have 'clean air'.
That includes the boats that have on board compressors. The only thing we double check these days is the availability of Nitrox and H.P. O2 for those using rebreathers.
We dived the Scilly Isles last year. There is NO O2 available on the island other than medical. (No Nitrox, no O2 for CCR.) ALL the air is 'clean air'! (We took prefilled cylinders with Nitrox, that where topped off with air during the week, and spare O2 cylinders for my rebreather.)

Ultimately we changed the industry by choosing who to spend our money with, and word of mouth. Don't use X, they only do dirty air. Use Y they are helpful, and will air top your Nitrox.

Gareth...

Yes...

This philosophy...should not only apply to breathing gas but everything else as well...

You usually know shortly after entering the shop...if you're getting the feeling that the ''operator'' thinks he/she has a captive audience...you should already be in the...''turning around and walking back out the door mode''...

Divers don't need shops...shops need divers...

I've gotten along fine for years without what most commonly refer to as their ''LDS''...and from what I've been reading in this forum alone about ''encountered problems'' with the local LDS...touching only on the subject of enriched gas fills...I'm sure I'm not alone...

I buy what I need...when I need it...from one of four international suppliers...that's it...I don't walk around car lots when I'm not in the market for a car...why would I walk around a LDS one or more times a week when I don't need dive gear...take the needle out of your arm...you'll save LOTS of money...

That stupid little razor cutter that made an appearance a couple of years ago is a prime example...they were selling locally for $45....the shop was probably buying then for $5....you never needed one...so why would you buy two...or three...or any...these are the kind of purchases you get sucked into wandering around dive shops when you don't need dive gear...You needed absolutely nothing when you walked in...but somehow managed to walk out spending $150...or more on ''trinkets and trash''...and the ''better mousetrap''...which really wasn't...

I've said many times on SB...by all means support the ''good guys''...and let the others slip into the abyss...

Best...

Warren
 
No. The nitrox band was an invention by Bob Olson to advertise.

Worked for him, but as an industry standard it sucks.

But no one mentioned nitrox bands, you made that up. What the OP said Nitrox Sticker.

DOT and CGA require cylinder contents markings, like a nitrox sticker.

I use this one: Comes off easy. View attachment 519661
Mine are custom made, out of blue painters tape.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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