DIR- Generic What constitutes a Tech-1 dive?

[1atm]

I suppose you could try to set such a standard, but it would probably end up super complicated if you want to ensure that it does the right thing.

This is very similar to the question that often gets asked in the recreational forum: what constitutes a dive / when do you log a dive? Some will tell you it needs to be deeper than X meters and longer than Y minutes. If you are using the log as a proxy to measure experience and skill (rather than a personal diary), this might not be the best rule to go by. You’d gain more experience on a dive aborted due to strong currents, bad viz that lead to buddy separation and only 6min bottom time, than on a dive bumbling along a tropical reef in perfect conditions for 1h. If, for example, you set the rule dives need to be deeper than 7m, I’d have to cross off a few Mexican caves from my log.

Applying the same logic to counting T1 dives will have you arrive at whats been said above. Does it give you practice to keep the skills sharp? For T1 thats ascends, 1 deco gas with up to 30min deco, gas consumption at up to 6x SCR/SAC. You dont need all of them in every single dive, but enough frequency to remain proficient.

If you’ve bought into the GUE philosophy and got as far as T1 or C2, I’d expect you can make the right call on this in line with this philosophy.

 

[Matan]

I understand that GUE demands proof of 25 dives / 3 years at your highest certification level to renew your Tech 1 certification. What would constitute a Tech-1 dive? Would an extended time dive to 80 feet on 32% classify as a Tech-1 dive because it will still involve doubles and deco bottle. Or would it have to be below 100' on 21/35?

Thanks.

the answer is pretty clear to all these questions if you took Tech 1.
if it's not clear contact your instructor.

if you're Tech 1 and asking yourself "am I doing enough T1 dives? am I well practiced and proficient in my T1 skills?" and the answers are "no" or "maybe" then go do more diving.

Don't worry no GUE police will run after you for a log book - think about diving.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

the answer is pretty clear to all these questions if you took Tech 1.
if it's not clear contact your instructor.

if you're Tech 1 and asking yourself "am I doing enough T1 dives? am I well practiced and proficient in my T1 skills?" and the answers are "no" or "maybe" then go do more diving.

Don't worry no GUE police will run after you for a log book - think about diving.

If the answer was that clear, then we would not be on the third page of this discussion in which extremely diverse opinions have already been expressed on this subject by experienced GUE divers. I am not GUE Tech-1, at least not yet but I am extremely interested in the GUE methodology because GUE has created what I call the "culture of competence. " This is something that extends outside training and the courses themselves so I was attempting to understand it more deeply

 

[Matan]

All these questions (and so much more) are answered in that class (at least on mine). I strongly recommend taking it.

Technical diving within the GUE system isn't for everyone - you need to commit (to yourself- that's probably the hardest thing) to be an active diver and do those dives at your highest level of certification. other agencies simply don't put that responsibility on the divers.

This leads to something I personally don't agree with:
A diver can take a technical diving class - don't do any tech diving for a lot of time - and still allowed to jump in the water (I've seen more then once how this turns into a disaster in the water).

I seriously doubt a GUE T1 diver, who invested so much in 10 days of training (fundies + T1), equipment, fitness (remember GUE has fitness requirements), for some us this also includes flying to other countries, and all that so eventually they'll have a piece of plastic in their wallet and not go diving? hell no!

most GUE divers I know don't care about the minimum requirements - they aim for much more then that.
if you only do a single T1 dive each month - after 3 years you've done 36 dives - almost 1.5 times the minimum.
Most divers will agree with me - 36 T1 dives in 3 years isn't that much if you want to be competent in your T1 skills.



Matan.

 

[rjack321]

In real world scenario ? Absolutely! In principle however, when an agency sets a minimum standard for anything then they need to put forth a very objective criteria.

No they don't - really.

They expect you to use your good judgement on whether you have kept your skills up and the easiest way for them to articulate that was via regular diving. 25 dives at your highest levels of cert (tech and cave) is how they have expressed that minimum proficiency for many years. They dont check your logbook anymore (it was too much work). If you are not current (perhaps due to illness or family issues) then you can take a refresher or just come clean with your buddies about your proficiency/skills. If you feel like arguing about what is/isnt proficient then I'd say you dont have the right mindset in the first place.

 

[1atm]

Well @CptSindbad, if you are looking for a DIR agency with very clearly defined renewal standards, there is one (ISE). They require an annual re-evaluation dive. I can see the thinking behind it, but I prefer the logistically (and $$) easier version of GUE

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Well @CptSindbad, if you are looking for a DIR agency with very clearly defined renewal standards, there is one (ISE). They require an annual re-evaluation dive. I can see the thinking behind it, but I prefer the logistically (and $$) easier version of GUE

I just read that. They issue all certifications for 3 years and then you have to be re-evaluated.

 

[rjack321]

I just read that. They issue all certifications for 3 years and then you have to be re-evaluated.

Achim should be fine, GUE kicked him out in 2007/8 for violating standards. But otherwise its all the same thing right?
GUE or ISE

Then just pop over to Europe every three years and you're set since there's not a single ISE instructor in North America.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Achim should be fine, GUE kicked him out in 2007/8 for violating standards. But otherwise its all the same thing right?
GUE or ISE

Then just pop over to Europe every three years and you're set since there's not a single ISE instructor in North America.

Agreed. The organization does not have a history behind it at least at this point and neither does it have a network in USA. Evaluation criteria is pretty simple though. Forget the logbook or the dive count. Jump in and show me.

 

[rjack321]

Agreed. The organization does not have a history behind it at least at this point and neither does it have a network in USA. Evaluation criteria is pretty simple though. Forget the logbook or the dive count. Jump in and show me.

ISE has been around about a decade, basically just as long as UTD. AG and Achim got the GUE boot at basically the same time.

So you have a spectrum:
UTD - no renewals needed
GUE - "25 dives" on the honor system
ISE - pay me to evaluate you again