donning/doffing BPW with long hose procedure and balance

[stepfen]

Hello buddies,

I was drilling donning and doffing my BPW underwater the other day and although I survived ( ), it was a bit of a mess.

Recently I have moved to a long hose/primary donate setup and I just don't know how to neatly handle the hoses. Do you still breath from the long hose or switch to the secondary? Do you keep the bungee around the neck or?

Few details about my setup: I use an aluminum plate but my tank is quite heavy (15lt steel ). I don't have any extra weight on the BPW - only 6kg (~13pounds) on a weight belt. I use a full 5mm 2 pieces Long John wet suit (water temperatures at depth around 70F) and I'm quite a big and floaty guy.
I did the drill at the end of a dive, with about 40bars(600psi) of air left and I was neutral at about 5m (15ft). During the drill BPW/tank was quite negative and I was quite positive without it. Overall the "system" was neutral but I ended up feet up while holding the heavy BPW/tank below and in front of me. What can be done to get more balanced? Obviously I need to move some weight from the BPW/tank to myself but since there is no extra weight how? I am thinking to add 1 kg to my belt (hence some air in the wing), but that would mean that I will be diving (a bit) overweight. Also at depth where I have less buoyancy from my suit maybe that won't be needed? Or am I doing something totally wrong?

BTW I am used to and prefer the the "flip over the head" removal/replace method instead of the roll method. The reason for this is that I have long hands and I can't get used to the elbow first in/out procedure. As a result I instinctively keep going fist first and my computer and/or compass always get entangled with the webbing - hence I hate it. With "flip over the head" everything is much better.

I would greatly appreciate if somebody could give me a step by step procedure or a video. I've seen a couple of videos from older posts but they are with jacket style/ standard (octopus) setup and most if not all use the roll method.

Thanks a lot...

 

[MichaelMc]

Removing the necklace but using that reg is my preference. It on the neck is unlikely to be helpful if things go sideways. I've learned to slide my mask strap a bit lower on my head to avoid pealing it off with the tank.

With a heavy tank, I'd get it quickly to a 'held at your chest' position. That balance point should be fine, just getting there may be more dynamic. I would likely start each direction with a bit of head up trim so that when the tank is horizontally in front of you it does not pull you too far into head down trim.

I have not done it with a heavy tank though, just AL80 singles sideways. Plus twin AL40s with a bit of plate weight over the head, which was very smooth. But for the twins, my body and belt were only a few pounds light and I could set the rig on the bottom and hover over it holding lightly with just one hand.

On a less negative rig, if those are 300 bar tanks, 232(?) bar might help. Or go tiny doubles in a more neutral tank. No real easy answers here. Beyond more neutral tanks.

Here is a very good diver, Trace Malinowski, doing it. Fairly sure those are AL80s though, which makes it easier.

There are many of the 'kneel and over the knee' versions, which are not very helpful as the standard has shifted away from planted on the bottom. And planted is not at all useful if you really wanted to do this mid water for some issue.

Here are some midwater ones. If you find more good midwater ones, please post them. 'midwater' is a good search term.

Two over the head. First a plate.
Then a jacket with a clearly buoyant tank:

Side, backplate, then roll into it:

Two jacket based IDC training videos with midwater R/R:
At 30:07, side then using arm to put back up on side back.

At 38:00
https://youtu.be/rNMROWd23dM?t=2285

 

[decompression]

I would never begrudge someone for practicing skills......but honestly I don’t believe the in water doff/don of a hogarthian rig really worthwhile. There are so very few possibilities that would require this, time might be better spent in other skills. Just my 2 PSI.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Removing the necklace but using that reg is my preference. It on the neck is unlikely to be helpful if things go sideways. I've learned to slide my mask strap a bit lower on my head to avoid pealing it off with the tank.

With a heavy tank, I'd get it quickly to a 'held at your chest' position. That balance point should be fine, just getting there may be more dynamic. I would likely start each direction with a bit of head up trim so that when the tank is horizontally in front of you it does not pull you too far into head down trim.

I have not done it with a heavy tank though, just AL80 singles sideways. Plus twin AL40s with a bit of plate weight over the head, which was very smooth. But for the twins, my body and belt were only a few pounds light and I could set the rig on the bottom and hover over it holding lightly with just one hand.

On a less negative rig, if those are 300 bar tanks, 232(?) bar might help. Or go tiny doubles in a more neutral tank. No real easy answers here. Beyond more neutral tanks.

Here is a very good diver, Trace Malinowski, doing it. Fairly sure those are AL80s though, which makes it easier.

If you find another one that is not kneeling on the bottom, please post it. Mostly all I find are the kneel and over the knee versions, which are not very helpful as the standard has shifted from planted on the bottom. And not at all useful if you really wanted to do this mid water for some issue.

Edit: I found a few:
'midwater' is a good search term
A clearly buoyant tank:

Two jacket based IDC training videos with midwater R/R:
At 30:07

At 38:00
https://youtu.be/rNMROWd23dM?t=2285

Last video is sad as that's Andy Philips who recently passed away.

 

[stepfen]

@MichaelMc Thanks for the tips and the videos. Several things to learn from them.

@decompression I kind of agree with you - thus I haven't given too much attention to it so far. The thing is that I recently started going solo and there doffing/donning can be quite important I think. I am not looking to master it but at least I want to be able to do it comfortably.

Conditions where I dive are quite favorable (good visibility - zero current - hard bottom - usually no entanglement dangers), but fishing nets can be an issue and in any way you never know. Hence I want to improve a bit on it.

Any more info always welcome. Thanks a lot!

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

I would try to find a tank that is not as negative, maybe an alu tank, and the add some weight to the belt.

But i prefere to have heavy tank and plate when diving floaty drysuite, but then a do not remove it from my back. maybe something i should practise.

 

[Storker]

honestly I don’t believe the in water doff/don of a hogarthian rig really worthwhile.

Doffing in the water can make it a lot easier to climb a small, narrow ladder to get aboard when diving from a small boat. Then, after you've climbed aboard you can haul the gear aboard. It doesn't matter whether you dive a hog rig or a poodle jacket/octo rig.

Cite: my own diving. These days I've mounted a proper dive ladder on my boat, so less point in doffing in the water, though.

But it can be a nice tool to have in the box because it can also be useful if you're shore diving and have to ditch your rig to climb ashore after the conditions have turned nasty.

 

[Storker]

@stepfen , this is how I do it:

1. Inflate wing completely, close suit shoulder valve, inflate suit to taste
2. Doff weights. If situation normal, pass to boat tender. If SHTF, ditch
3. Release suit hose
4. Spit out primary reg, take necklace off, put primary back in mouth
5. Open waistband (unless already done to doff weight belt)
6. Chicken wing out of right shoulder strap
7. Roll out of rig, pull left arm out

If situation normal:

1. Secure rig with line hanging from the boat so it doesn't float away
2. Climb aboard
3. Haul rig aboard

 

[1atm]

@stepfen , this is how I do it:

1. Inflate wing completely, close suit shoulder valve, inflate suit to taste
2. Doff weights. If situation normal, pass to boat tender. If SHTF, ditch
3. Release suit hose
4. Spit out primary reg, take necklace off, put primary back in mouth
5. Open waistband (unless already done to doff weight belt)
6. Chicken wing out of right shoulder strap
7. Roll out of rig, pull left arm out

If situation normal:

1. Secure rig with line hanging from the boat so it doesn't float away
2. Climb aboard
3. Haul rig aboard

I can see the usefulness of doffing the rig at the surface, e.g. like Storker described.

But I’m not sure why you would ever want to take it off under water or in mid-water. You might argue about restrictions in caves/wrecks, but in this case you should probably question if backmount is the right tool for the job, let alone the fact that this would be a very advanced dive to say the least. Am I missing something? Why would you need to take off the rig u der water?

 

[stepfen]

@stepfen , this is how I do it:

1. Inflate wing completely, close suit shoulder valve, inflate suit to taste
2. Doff weights. If situation normal, pass to boat tender. If SHTF, ditch
3. Release suit hose
4. Spit out primary reg, take necklace off, put primary back in mouth
5. Open waistband (unless already done to doff weight belt)
6. Chicken wing out of right shoulder strap
7. Roll out of rig, pull left arm out

If situation normal:

1. Secure rig with line hanging from the boat so it doesn't float away
2. Climb aboard
3. Haul rig aboard

@Storker thanks for all the effort but I'm talking about doffing/donning underwater (eg in case of entanglement) not on the surface. I should have made it clearer. Sorry.

But I’m not sure why you would ever want to take it off under water or in mid-water.

Entanglement basically - as I said in a previous post conditions where I dive are generally very favorable although fishing nets and lines are used a lot around here. So far, while diving, I've only seen old abandoned ones on the sea floor but you never know. Also I wouldn't mind to be able to have a look (if/when needed) to my equipment. As I said all these because I mainly dive solo nowadays.

BTW, after watching the videos above and re-thinking about it, today I did try it again and it was much better this time.