Diving air to 60m

[Celt]

The interesting question is ... have you dived the same wrecks also on trimix so you can compare your air dives vs trimix dives? If so why are you still diving air (except for your rational that it's cheap and easy to get).

PS: would like to know what area of Ireland and what wrecks you are diving... I'm probably going to visit Ireland in fall, and doing some nice wreck dives is an option

South of Ireland Cunard liner Folia, in 42 meters, Cunard liner Feltria 67meters to the Zeta 72 meters and numerous wrecks in between

 

[mafi]

(...) Cunard liner Feltria 67meters to the Zeta 72 meters and numerous wrecks in between

I understand your reasoning for cheap gas, but I still can't believe people putting money over their safety.

While I am happy to hear that you never had an issue until now, the indisputable scientific fact is that your cognitive abilities are severely affected by narcosis at those depths. I hope you never get to a situation where this will become an issue, but considering narcosis and WOB on 60-70m penetration(?) wreck dives on air, you are quite literally playing a Russian roulette.

I just hope that WHEN you find the limit of what you are doing, it will not endanger other people.

 

[Celt]

I understand your reasoning for cheap gas, but I still can't believe people putting money over their safety.

While I am happy to hear that you never had an issue until now, the indisputable scientific fact is that your cognitive abilities are severely affected by narcosis at those depths. I hope you never get to a situation where this will become an issue, but considering narcosis and WOB on 60-70m penetration(?) wreck dives on air, you are quite literally playing a Russian roulette.

I just hope that WHEN you find the limit of what you are doing, it will not endanger other people.

It’s not about money, it’s about someone telling me I can’t do something unless I do it their way, no one is going to tell me I can’t fill a dive tank unless they put a stamp on it or go diving unless they give me a piece of paper that says I can, I don’t live like that. I’m an adult and I know what I’m capable of, like I said it’s a personal choice.

 

[beester]

It’s not about money, it’s about someone telling me I can’t do something unless I do it their way, no one is going to tell me I can’t fill a dive tank unless they put a stamp on it or go diving unless they give me a piece of paper that says I can, I don’t live like that. I’m an adult and I know what I’m capable of, like I said it’s a personal choice.

In my Belgian diving CMAS club there was an instructor a bit like you. He would do deep air dives, but no problems because he had his select group of buddies he did it with (I was one of them in the past). My Belgian old school **** CMAS card has no depth limit on air, so even if there was a scuba police or insurance issues all was ok, we could do these dives we were certified (or certifiable) to do them!

Deep in Belgian context means 55-60m max because there are not a lot of places you can go deeper (both north sea and quarries). I did quite a lot of dives with him in this depth range, until I smarted up after an incident or 2.

Then 1 year he started going to Malta (gozo) doing deeper and deeper on air. 80m, 85m, 90m, etc... Still all fine, until he started showing pics of his antics to less experienced divers and started encouraging them to do the same. He even put a picture of his divecomputer reading 101m on his wall. His sorry ass was kicked right out of the club and the federation. (he's now a PADI instructor) and with reason!

Your post is not about personal freedom.. it's not about that... it's about chest thumping. If it was about someone can't tell me what I can and can't do, you wouldn't post on a forum, you would just go diving. And with your 5000+dives you should know there is no scuba police and nobody is going to stop you to do the dives you want to do (your buddy choice will become severely limited I guess, but hey maybe not in Ireland).

But if you start chest thumping on a public forum... you should expect some backlash, you dinosaur

PS: Thanks for posting the wreck names!
PPS: I've utter respect and admiration for dinosaurs... with one caveat... they need to be the evolving kind

 

[Efka76]

I am wondering why people behave so irresponsibly. Currently there are various reaserches available who demonstrate that very deep diving on air is not safe. I understand that some people want to be matchos and want to show off, however, in this case you are risking your own life.

I did not find information that this diver went to 60 m with single 12L cylinder, however, to go to such depth I would expect that diver is: 1) Certified trimix diver 2) has up to date and not rusty skills 3) Has appropriate equipment and corrct & sufficient gas (twinset with trimix) and deco gas. 4) has a good health.

It seems that with this Polish diver some of important factors were omitted and this resulted in death. Unfortunately such depth is not very forgiving even small mistakes.

 

[electric_diver]

I would be worried about breathing air that feels like breathing pudding at that depth (no matter the type or reg you are using), and hypercapnia.

I had never noticed the increased gas density issue before on deep air dives so I watched out for it on last nights dive. Still didn't notice it even though I was looking for it. St. Lawrence river, 160 feet, occasionally swimming against ~2knot current in full tech gear with 2 stages.

I think, just like almost everything else in diving, it can be an issue for some but not for others. So it is inappropriate to make blanket statements

 

[Efka76]

I had never noticed the increased gas density issue before on deep air dives so I watched out for it on last nights dive. Still didn't notice it even though I was looking for it. St. Lawrence river, 160 feet, occasionally swimming against ~2knot current in full tech gear with 2 stages.

I think, just like almost everything else in diving, it can be an issue for some but not for others. So it is inappropriate to make blanket statements

All divers are affected by gas narcosis, however, divers have different body composition, fitness level. also, some divers are more experienced and have muscle memory which helps in better solving issues deep under water. Accordingly, you might have an impression that you are not affected by narcosis.

 

[electric_diver]

All divers are affected by gas narcosis, however, divers have different body composition, fitness level. also, some divers are more experienced and have muscle memory which helps in better solving issues deep under water. Accordingly, you might have an impression that you are not affected by narcosis.

I was not writing about narcosis. My comments were strictly limited to gas density.

 

[electric_diver]

As I tend to avoid such people both above and (especially) below the surface, I don't see a reason to continue in this conversation.

That's unfortunate but understandable. You do realize the person you were arguing with has between 10 and 20 times your dive experience. You might have realized that your dogma isn't an absolute and learned something in the process.

 

[mafi]

I had never noticed the increased gas density issue before on deep air dives so I watched out for it on last nights dive. Still didn't notice it even though I was looking for it. St. Lawrence river, 160 feet, occasionally swimming against ~2knot current in full tech gear with 2 stages.

I think, just like almost everything else in diving, it can be an issue for some but not for others. So it is inappropriate to make blanket statements

I thought the same thing, as the has density grows gradually. I can assure you that in 160feet the gas denstity and hypercapnia can quickly become an issue should you get stressed or working hard.

Gas density is not subjective.

If you could switch to helitrox for just a few seconds, you’d realize how much easier it is to breathe.