Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[BoltSnap]

As far as I can tell I posted less than 10% of what you posted, and judging by this thread the value of that is not much. So perhaps you are the one that should "ease off"?

You are badgering a lot of people here who have thousands more dives than you do (including myself) with almost no experience or knowledge to justify it on your part or make you think that you have what it takes to judge others. Just take it easy and go diving more.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This thread for some reason reminds me of Lord of the Flies.

 

[oldschoolto]

They (GUE/DIR) are a cult... And, Bashing a guy because he only has 92 dives..

Jim...

 

[Scuba-74]

You are badgering a lot of people here who have thousands more dives than you do (including myself) with almost no experience or knowledge to justify it on your part or make you think that you have what it takes to judge others. Just take it easy and go diving more.

Let those people speak for themselves. You offered nothing of value in this thread. You started by bad mouthing a person infinitely more accomplished than you are, then proceeded with a lame attempt at making fun of a whole group of posters on this thread, who offered tons of more substance, supplemented it with kilobytes of unsolicited garbage on how you teach someone (who gives a rat ?), and, when called on that, resort to what - dive count?

Don't know what kind of a diver you are, but you sure as heck are one laughable debate opponent

 

[BoltSnap]

You offered nothing of value in this thread.

kilobytes of unsolicited garbage on how you teach someone (who gives a rat ?), and, when called on that, resort to what - dive count?

Don't know what kind of a diver you are, but you sure as heck are one laughable debate opponent

You really need to go out diving and gain more experience in real ocean not cyberspace and add digit or two to your dive count. It is very difficult for you now to understand what is and what isn't when your fingers are faster than your brains in addition to your gross lack of diving experience. You really should concentrate on your diving and knowledge than on judging others.

 

[Scuba-74]

You really need to go out diving and gain more experience in real ocean not cyberspace and add digit or two to your dive count.

Oh, I fully intent on doing so, don't worry. Going diving first thing tomorrow. In real ocean, too. Something which seems to be lacking in your neck of the woods (or desert)

It is very difficult for you now to understand what is and what isn't

I beg to differ. It's not difficult at all to judge something as trivial as trim even with my limited dive count. And anyone who cares to scroll back can see for themselves that you personally offered squat of substance in this thread, besides your cringe worthy attempt at sarcasm mixed with self-righteousness.

 

[rddvet]

Sounds a little hypocritical from someone who in his 2nd response to a stranger began putting words in opponent's mouth and calling it "BS" in the same post. Wanna link? Maybe mods can let you know to debate civilly.

Using the word BS is slightly different than going out of your way to message someone and tell them to go F- themselves, especially after the douchey comments he made about enjoying others' demise. He's shown himself to be what he really is.

Just to clarify, I'm not sure why GUE keeps coming up. I've stated I am not a GUE/DIR trained diver. I have no GUE training, though I am allowed to post in the DIR forum, hence the indicator under my name. I'd get rid of it if I knew how so people wouldn't jump to GUE as an argument. I do very much prescribe to many of the DIR/GUE philosophies that are safe and smart.

Seems as though this thread has come to an impasse and we'll just all have to agree to disagree. I've made my points (apparently too much) and have listened to the other arguments. I respect varying opinions, but I really find myserlf having trouble justifying the reasons given for what I saw in the video was ok. Seems we just have such different philosophies that there's probably little point in continuing since it's going nowhere.

 

[CptTightPants21]

You are ignoring the arguments given to you. With respect to kneeling, several posters, including myself, gave a very simple argument - students don't sign up for this class to either demonstrate their buoyancy and trim skills, or perfect their buoyancy and trim skills. In the same vein, the instructor doesn't want to lose valuable bottom time on perfecting buoyancy skills of the least skilled student at everyone else's expense. Why is it so difficult to understand, or at least acknowledge?

Is that really the only argument? It doesn't matter? We are talking about a class that involves deep penetration into slowly collapsing large steel coffins. Many people have died in these environments because they lacked these basic skills. I am being a little facetious, but with that kind of logic let's do away with any class prerequisites and start taking new divers to 200'. Basics don't matter, they paid to learn the 200' stuff.

Please stop saying that they are demonstrating "poor skills", or "bad stuff", it's just not true. They may not be demonstrating perfect neutral buoyancy and horizontal trim at that very moment, but that doesn't mean they are demonstrating poor skills or are not held to a high enough standard.

I laughed at 'that very moment' comment---that's being a little deceptive to people who haven't seen the video. It did get me thinking a little bit though. I have focused on the kneeling during the bottle drop--mostly because it was blatantly obvious and also I wanted to focus the conversation on one particular instance so that we didn't get diluted with tic for tat in an 80 min video. If you were to put "skills" and "stuff" into three categories - poor, average, and good. What would each category entail. What are some of the factors that would be poor bottle drop skill, average bottle drop skill, or good average drop skill.

There are people in here that are denying what we saw was poor bottle drop/pickup skills. What does poor bottle drop/pick up skills mean to you?

Aren’t all instructional dives trust me dives? Even in an overhead environment? What if you had an issue 1000’ in a hole with two or four students??

This is a very valid point. In a cave, if something happened to the an instructor the students would be on their own just as in this wreck. I think the 'trust me' comment comes when the OP states that he would not do this dive soon after class by himself/without the instructor. If a person takes a class, and passes the class they should be comfortable doing all of the dives that they did to earn the certification without the instructor present. The fact that OP says he wouldn't repeat this same dive the next day after class is a little bit of a red flag.--------I have a feeling that people are really going to dig into the last few sentences and start throwing what-ifs, and scenarios, I get that. Take it in the general spirit in which it was meant and think about things outside of scuba. If someone won't do something without direct supervision can you honestly state that they are competent, skilled, able, confident---whatever word you want to use in XYZ?

You don’t seem to get the “it doesn’t matter” portion that others see. Kneeling at anytime falls outside GUE/DIR holy grail, I get it.

I’m just surprised you admitted you’d hold onto a rock if you were winded - don’t come down here and do that though - you should take the drift diving specialty and learn how to dive in currents.

To each his own.

The great irony of this is that rddvet doesn't possess as single GUE card. There was good diving before GUE existed and there is good diving outside of GUE. You have been told numerous times in this thread by many divers, some with GUE training others with no GUE training, that no diver is perfect and that kneeling, breaking trim, etc is acceptable at different points in a dive or for specific purposes.

You can't accept that GUE has become a much more inclusive and accepting place that strives to balance real-world practicalities and good diving skill. You force yourself to fight a 2000's caricature of a GUE diver because admitting that GUE has moved more towards the middle would be exposing just how far off base you are tilting.

 

[rjack321]

I laughed at 'that very moment' comment---that's being a little deceptive to people who haven't seen the video. It did get me thinking a little bit though. I have focused on the kneeling during the bottle drop--mostly because it was blatantly obvious and also I wanted to focus the conversation on one particular instance so that we didn't get diluted with tic for tat in an 80 min video. If you were to put "skills" and "stuff" into three categories - poor, average, and good. What would each category entail. What are some of the factors that would be poor bottle drop skill, average bottle drop skill, or good average drop skill.

There are people in here that are denying what we saw was poor bottle drop/pickup skills. What does poor bottle drop/pick up skills mean to you?

One of my rare bottle drops. Which was also strangely satisfying? Entering the engine room of the Daniel Morell at 195ft in Lake Huron
Richard Jack

Anyway, I was happy with it and it created a saleable pic for Becky so I would rate this as above average.

(I didnt need to kneel, I didnt kick up crap, I didnt lose any vertical control dropping a full 80 of 50% or crash into the deck when picking it up, also minimal finning around and little or no extraneous hand movements/waving)

 

[ChuckP]

the most blatant was depth.

Which was discussed in the class I was in back in the spring, we were told he has a waiver.

Standards are standards and I agree 100% they should be followed unless you have a waiver.