200m swim test and 10 mins water treading

[Neilwood]

A few weeks ago I was waiting for my buddies to turn up so I decided to have a swim in my 7mm wet suit without weights on. I was pretty well stuck on top of the water. If you are worried about your swim test just do it in a 7mm wetsuit or thicker with some small ankle weights on.
More seriously though if you want to take up diving there are many benefits to being a strong confident swimmer. I will be diving in Madeira again shortly and you have to swim between the dive boat and the jetty before and after the dive. It would not be possible to dock / tie up the dive boat at the jetty as the sea is frequently too rough. On another occasion on Lanzarote we could not exit the water where we entered off the jetty because the sea had become rough. We had to swim some distance in rough seas to get to the beach where we could exit.

Not an option because it is a condition within the standards that you must be neutrally buoyant.

 

[TMHeimer]

Not an option because it is a condition within the standards that you must be neutrally buoyant.

Yes. In the swim competitions my brothers partake in you are allowed to wear a wetsuit, but can't compete (as in, your time doesn't count in the placings and awarding of medals). I think some wear one for the cold. My theory is that being so buoyant makes swimming faster because no energy is used to keep you afloat. Interesting that PADI does allow aids that would make you neutrally buoyant for the swim tests, but not for the float/tread water ones. You'd think if everyone were at least neutral (or some better) it would even out the playing field--especially when it comes to the 2 minutes "hands out" on the DM tread test. I wouldn't have had to discover what "drown-proofing" was in order to do that.
Maybe PADI does allow aids to become neutral on the floats--need a Standards expert to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Neilwood]

Yes. In the swim competitions my brothers partake in you are allowed to wear a wetsuit, but can't compete (as in, your time doesn't count in the placings and awarding of medals). I think some wear one for the cold. My theory is that being so buoyant makes swimming faster because no energy is used to keep you afloat. Interesting that PADI does allow aids that would make you neutrally buoyant for the swim tests, but not for the float/tread water ones. You'd think if everyone were at least neutral (or some better) it would even out the playing field--especially when it comes to the 2 minutes "hands out" on the DM tread test. I wouldn't have had to discover what "drown-proofing" was in order to do that.
Maybe PADI does allow aids to become neutral on the floats--need a Standards expert to correct me if I'm wrong.

Exact wording as follows:
Waterskills Assessment
Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids. At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 metre/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metre/ yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel. If conditions warrant, students may wear an exposure suit as long as they are weighted for neutral buoyancy.
I suspect that the interpretation for the float would be that any positive buoyancy from the suit would be classed as a swim aid

 

[TMHeimer]

Exact wording as follows:
Waterskills Assessment
Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids. At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 metre/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metre/ yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel. If conditions warrant, students may wear an exposure suit as long as they are weighted for neutral buoyancy.
I suspect that the interpretation for the float would be that any positive buoyancy from the suit would be classed as a swim aid

Thanks for the Standards. Yes, it seems neutral buoyancy OK for the Swim but not for the float as it says "without any swim aids". So you can be "neutral" for the Swim, but not for the float. So I guess my question of why the difference stands.

Regarding the Swim, it says "may wear an exposure suit if conditions warrant,.....". To me this would indicate that someone may be doing the Swim test in open water which may be cold. Whereas it may be supposed that everyone would do the float in a pool. So that may mean the "neutral buoyancy" issue, regarding one person being much more negatively buoyant than another, may not be on their minds at all....?

I know I always harp on what the real purposes of these tests are. I may ask, what if someone also does the float in cold open water--exposure suit OK or not? Why wouldn't everyone do both tests in a pool, especially in colder climates? For the Swim, what are the (other?) "conditions" that may warrant allowing a wetsuit?

 

[WeRtheOcean]

You just need more time in the water to get fishey. Sidestroke, elementary backstroke, breast stroke. You need to do 4 laps. Your legs probably feel like they sink, but your chest full of air will definitely float. When your face is in the water exhale, when your face comes out breath in. Just keep at it. You can do it.

I never have been able to master the face in water exhale technique, so I specialize in side stroke, where I don't have to put my face in the water. Backstroke is okay, but I can't see where I'm going, so I don't use it as much.

 

[rongoodman]

I never have been able to master the face in water exhale technique, so I specialize in side stroke, where I don't have to put my face in the water. Backstroke is okay, but I can't see where I'm going, so I don't use it as much.

I even took some lessons from Total Immersion instructors when they had a studio in New Paltz and I still never got it!

 

[60plus]

I was 1/2 joking when I said do the test in a 7mm wetsuit. I did not even know the rule until Neil's post. I did it in a pool in T shirt and trunks. I have seen the test done in 5mm wet suit unweighted, so well positively buoyant. I have also seen the test ignored, the instructor saying "I've seen you snorkel in the sea, you will be OK". My son never even did the swim test, he was just asked how far he could swim.

 

[TMHeimer]

I was 1/2 joking when I said do the test in a 7mm wetsuit. I did not even know the rule until Neil's post. I did it in a pool in T shirt and trunks. I have seen the test done in 5mm wet suit unweighted, so well positively buoyant. I have also seen the test ignored, the instructor saying "I've seen you snorkel in the sea, you will be OK". My son never even did the swim test, he was just asked how far he could swim.

I believe you on how these tests can be fluffed over or even ignored. That never happened at our shop, but my duty was usually to keep track of 6-8-10 people doing the 200m swim to make sure all did the correct number of laps.....really, can anyone without an idetic (sp) memory do that?
When I took OW myself we had to do the 300 mask/fin/snorkel test in lieu of the 200 swim, which of course is way easier without any training/swim technique. You have to know how to kick and...well that's it. I used my arms and was told I couldn't. I finished first in class and asked her if she wanted me to do it again, she said no that's OK.
It's another discussion about how it's decided the 200 vs. the 300. Instructor decides usually, but sometimes it's a class vote, nothing written in stone. So you do the 300, and the instructor has no idea what you'd do on the 200 without fins.
So back to my old question--what are we trying to determine?

 

[Jcp2]

I think it’s to determine a fairly minimal threshold for comfort in the water. Those who can’t do even this bit will likely have issues later on in class? We had a choice of 200m swim or 300m snorkel. For the 10 minute tread I swam around a bit because I’m a sinker. My daughter floated on her back and fell asleep.

 

[TMHeimer]

I think it’s to determine a fairly minimal threshold for comfort in the water. Those who can’t do even this bit will likely have issues later on in class? We had a choice of 200m swim or 300m snorkel. For the 10 minute tread I swam around a bit because I’m a sinker. My daughter floated on her back and fell asleep.

Well yeah, I do actually agree. I've just never been comfortable with the "comfortability in water" thing. For me that's too vague. I have read on SB some instructors saying they just want to make sure a student can show that they won't panic, sink, drown, etc., not worrying too much about what sort of swimmer they are on the 200. As you say, it is what it is--"fairly minimal threshold for comfort in water". I just think the agencies have had decades to define the tests better than what the standards say. For the 200, it seems to be that "any stroke" is OK, even dog paddling. To me, that's not swimming.
Not to belabor the point, but why the choice (IF students are given the choice) of 200 Swim or 300 m/f/s when these are 2 very different animals?