Island time? Why do we accept this excuse?

[markmud]

HI Lorenzoid,

I enjoyed reading your post--we need to arrange a dinner so that you, I, and other, like minded people can have a good time! We are planning to ride the Silver Comet and Chief Ladiga Rail Trail next April--maybe then?

In some places in the world, the idea of a typical restaurant remains to provide good food--sometimes with barely adequate service, sometimes with good service--but providing good food is what is foremost in the restaurant owner's mind.

With my travels and experiences with people from all over the world, I disagree. I am sure, in marginal terms, you are correct, but only marginally correct.

Maybe a better way to phrase it is that in some cultures the people are more at ease with the idea that they make their OWN experience.

Again, I have to disagree with your premise. I think you need to remove the word "cultures" from that last sentence; and, leave the word "people." I have found people who are nice, respectful, and fun, from almost all cultures. I have found nice people from all races.

My wife and I met some people who are Americans of Mexican ancestry last weekend. Chile Rellenos, tamales, salsa, and scratch-made margaritas were the topics that broke the ice. The food bridged all cultural differences, and it was really good food!

We then went to a brewery for a tour. We met a couple who have a different ancestral and cultural background from me or my wife. We spent close to two hours together talking about beer, and then we discovered that the husband is a scuba diver. We had a grand time. Food and beer broke through all cultural differences.

The service was really good at both establishments; poor service was not the topic.

The doesn't seem to fly in the U.S. these days.

I think you are generalizing way too much in blamestorming us gringos.

and pass the sushi and then the sashimi!

m

 

[Rechno]

"I noticed a gentleman from Germany...." I dont know if I am considered a gentleman but as a German I still feel entitled to answer ;-)
Yes, taking away the plates before everyone has finished is considered really unpolite and to stress this even further, usually after everyone has finished you still don´t just take away the plates but take a look at the position of the cutlery on the plate, which should show if you are completely finished or just pausing.(although this is not that common anymore).

Handing out the bill with the food/ drink is sometimes a thing in street cafes or drink/food places that came across the pond.

I think, @markmud and @Lorenzoid make good point and show the different attitudes.
I´d say it is always a mix of food quality and service. If one is really poor the other one can hardly make up for it. But I tend to say that the food quality is a little bit more important then the overall service in my point of view, since I don´t just want to fill up with something (that can barely be considered food), but make sure that I enjoy the taste.

 

[markmud]

But I tend to say that the food quality is a little bit more important then the overall service in my point of view

Hi Rechno,

Thanks for the compliment!

The good food gets you in the door of the restaurant and keeps you coming back, unless the service just sucks, IMHO.

Remember the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld?

cheers,
m

 

[Lorenzoid]

HI Lorenzoid,

I enjoyed reading your post--we need to arrange a dinner so that you, I, and other, like minded people can have a good time! We are planning to ride the Silver Comet and Chief Ladiga Rail Trail next April--maybe then?

I used to ride and run the Silver Comet trail often!

More on topic, the dinner ought to be on Bonaire, so we can prove our points, whatever they are--with a few Amstels, I'll probably forget what my point was.

Again, I have to disagree with your premise. I think you need to remove the word "cultures" from that last sentence; and, leave the word "people." I have found people who are nice, respectful, and fun, from almost all cultures. I have found nice people from all races.

My wife and I met some people who are Americans of Mexican ancestry last weekend. Chile Rellenos, tamales, salsa, and scratch-made margaritas were the topics that broke the ice. The food bridged all cultural differences, and it was really good food!

"Culture" is absolutely the wrong word. But I used it because the idea of some of us Americans perceiving restaurant service differently than people elsewhere in the world may be a "cultural difference" was brought up early in this thread. The conundrum is always what word to use to describe what we have in America? Multiple cultures? For purposes of a discussion like this, where we don't have room to write a book, I'm content to limit the word to the context of dining out and stick with that to describe how the great majority of America eats. Even most Mexican restaurants in America are aware they need to meet American expectations of service in order to compete. There is no reason Americans of Mexican ancestry wouldn't have the same expectations of our restaurant servers as all of us nowadays.

I think you are generalizing way too much in blamestorming us gringos.

"Blame" isn't the issue. It's just the difference between how we Americans have come to expect restaurant service to be and what others in the world expect. We Americans have high expectations, and it works just fine here in America. I wouldn't even want to generalize. I think some aspects of American-style service are great, while others are not so great. While I don't like fake, overbearing friendliness, being checked up on every five minutes, or being rushed, and I don't need my drink order taken within two minutes of sitting down, I do kind of like having tap water served automatically, and even refilled!

 

[markmud]

I used to ride and run the Silver Comet trail often!

More on topic, the dinner ought to be on Bonaire, so we can prove our points, whatever they are--with a few Amstels, I'll probably forget what my point was.

For sure! They sell Ron Zacapa rum on Bonaire, yum! Neat please, don't ruin Ron Zacapa with ice.

Do you know of a shuttle service that runs the Silver Comet RT? I would like to avoid round trip segments and do the trail one way.

Even most Mexican restaurants in America are aware they need to meet American expectations of service in order to compete.

I have been eating in restaurants in Mexico for 45 years, from Acupulco to Baja and many points in between. There east coast restaurants also. They gave excellent service. Mexicans know how to entertain!

While I don't like fake, overbearing friendliness, being checked up on every five minutes, or being rushed, and I don't need my drink order taken within two minutes of sitting down...

Yeah, I totally agree. We have more in common on this topic than disagreements.

cheers,
m

 

[doctormike]

A NYC office with parents with their kids... Complaints? Nah....

Actually, the parents in my practice are terrific, and rarely complain, even if I am running a bit late. I think that the reason is that most reasonable people recognize that (unless you are a psychiatrist with strictly defined blocks of time for appointments) there is a lot of variability in what each patient needs, and it's very difficult to schedule for that accurately ahead of time.

Sometimes the visit is real quick - changing a surgical dressing, etc... Other times it's unexpectedly long. A baby comes in for a routine hearing check and you find out that they have a permanent hearing loss? Those parents need a LOT of time, no matter who is waiting. And the reason why most people don't complain is that they realize that (1) they will ALWAYS be fit into the schedule if they need to be seen, and (2) they will also always get the opportunity to ask questions and discuss things when it is their turn. Sure, there is a bell curve for everything, and some people are never happy, but overall my experience has been good.

I heard about one famous dermatologist who schedules appointments as either 2 question blocks or 3 question blocks. You get your two or three questions, and that's it. Sure keeps things running on time...

 

[KathyV]

I completely agree with that sentiment! It's related but not precisely what I was getting at, though, when I questioned whether in some cultures the idea of "restaurant" is more about the food while in others it's more about the service.

Putting aside the low-end (e.g., McDonalds) and very high-end restaurants, I perceive a trend, led by America, toward providing the customer with an "experience" rather than simply great food. It seems that every mid-range restaurant these days must in order to succeed have a theme or "concept" as it's sometimes referred to in the restaurant business. The service is part of that experience to varying degrees, but service is almost always a key element. The food, in contrast, need only be good enough to fit the concept (and nowadays to be photogenic for Instagram). The food doesn't need to be great. If you read reviews on Yelp, the majority of them complain about the service, not the food. So, my thinking is that service, and more generally, the "experience," has overtaken food as what the idea of a restaurant is all about in our American culture. In some places in the world, the idea of a typical restaurant remains to provide good food--sometimes with barely adequate service, sometimes with good service--but providing good food is what is foremost in the restaurant owner's mind. Now, you mentioned that poor service can ruin the experience anywhere, and I agree. However, I believe that in some cultures people would allow poor service to ruin their experience more than others. Maybe a better way to phrase it is that in some cultures the people are more at ease with the idea that they make their OWN experience. There are places where restaurants up and down the street all look similar, and probably provide similarly lax service, and yet they're packed with people enjoying themselves because they like to go to that place for the food. The social aspect, not the restaurant service, makes their experience. That doesn't seem to fly in the U.S. these days.

I sometimes find that the "Theme" or "Concept" of a restaurant can be annoying. It seems that a lot of restaurants are designed to be very noisy and then they blare music at you on top of all the noise caused by servers and patron and poor acoustics. It's hard to have a conversation with your fellow diners.

Or they make it so dark that it is difficult to read the menu, or the menu is so clever or exotic or cute that the waiter has to explain every dish!

We enjoy the food and ambience of a few of these concept restaurants, but we make a point of going to them during less busy days/hours, so we will have some peace and will be able to enjoy the meal and the experience.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No offense intended, just my observations, generalized. My former mother-in-law is of Dutch descent. Direct and blunt very aptly describe her and her family. Still like them as I have some of the same tendencies despite having no ancestors from the Netherlands (that I'm aware of).

Yeah, see how the demeanor of Dutch people change when they find out you're half Dutch and were born in Holland.

 

[Bob DBF]

I sometimes find that the "Theme" or "Concept" of a restaurant can be annoying. It seems that a lot of restaurants are designed to be very noisy and then they blare music at you on top of all the noise caused by servers and patron and poor acoustics. It's hard to have a conversation with your fellow diners.

If I ever get my hands on the designer that came up with the industrial look, I just hope the members of the jury have been in one. If I wanted echoes and noise, I wouldn't be going to a resturant.


Bob

 

[KathyV]

If I ever get my hands on the designer that came up with the industrial look, I just hope the members of the jury have been in one. If I wanted echoes and noise, I wouldn't be going to a resturant.


Bob

I know! No ceilings, exposed ductwork, and a whole lot of noise! And they are often drafty and cold, too!