Should I go back to traditional reg set-up? (vs. primary donate)

[Eric Sedletzky]

For now, this is largely an academic question, as I cant dive for the time being (my county is on lockdown).

A few years back I swapped out my regs to a primary donate set-up. I had not done so previously, frankly, out of laziness, but finally decided the small amount of reduced risk was worth it. Also, I had never found an octo-holder that worked properly.

Should I go back? Are folks more worried about taking a reg from someones mouth now? I've never had to donate before, but we're talking about the weighing of small risks anyways.

I dont know whether the coronavirus can survive underwater the second it takes to donate. Nobody may know about this, since its a novel virus.

Speaking for myself, right now, I think I'd rather take the reg that wasnt in your mouth.

What do you all think?

By doing primary donate I think the chances are you will get germs more than not get germs. Not all germs are bad but there will be body fluid exchange and I don’t think there is any way around this, at least as quickly as a donate should be done. It’s possible that any thick saliva will not completely dissolve and get rinsed away from the time it takes to swap the reg. Also, if you turn the reg down as you pass it, the inside of the reg will remain somewhat dry, therefore the exhaled air vapor buildup will be aspired by the recipient.
If you’re worried about swapping spit with someone then go back to a standard octo. Something to think about. The only one I’m interested in swapping spit and breathing vapor with is my spouse.

 

[AJ]

If you're worried about germs in your buddys mouth, how about the water you dive in? Wikpedia says the following: In a drop (one millilitre) of seawater, one can find 10 million viruses, one million bacteria and about 1,000 small protozoans and algae (called “protists”).

I don't think fresh water is much cleaner. If you're concerned about germs, maybe it's to stop diving at all? For me, I have other things to worry about then donating primary with germs or not.

 

[TuckerIdaho]

In a drop (one millilitre) of seawater, one can find 10 million viruses, one million bacteria and about 1,000 small protozoans and algae (called “protists”).

I fell in a superfund harbor when I was 10 and probably ingested a half gallon of seawater. I guess I'm good.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Given the fact that covid causes breathing issues, I think you can safely assume nobody with significant symptoms would go diving. So as a starting point, let's assume you or your buddy does have the virus, but are still unaware of it. Although there are (many) cases where people are able to transmit it without having any symptoms themselves, on average the individual virus load will still be low in cases like that. Since you don't have that much virus to spread around, the chance of infection is already reduced somewhat.
The virus is transmitted via droplets, moving a reg trough the water will wash off some of these droplets decreasing the chance of infection further.
Let's try to put some figures on that (please note I am not a doctor and cannot backup the figures below with actual facts. It is merely an attempt to guesstimate the particular risk mentioned by the OP and put that in perspective compared with other risks)

The chance that you are diving with somebody who has the virus is low to start with. Say 1 in 3 people is infected (no base for this other than all news outlets say the actual infection rate is a lot higher than the reported rate). So let's say the chance is 0.3

Multiply that with the likelihood that one of you runs OoA: say divers run OoA 1 in every 10.000 dives (wild guess here, but we are talking recreational diving)
0.3 X 0.00001

Multiply that with the likelihood that a contaminated reg is donated: say surfacing is not an option and a mouthpiece (rubber covered in saliva) contains the virus (remember the load will be small). Let's say it's about 50/50.

0.3 X 0.00001 X 0.5

multiply that with the chance that that particular action will get the other person infected: again, let's assume 50/50

0.3 X 0.00001 X 0.5 X 0.5 = 0.00000075‬

Now think about the OoA scenario a bit further; once you surface, you probably will be close together in order to help the OoA diver establish positive buoyancy at the surface. Good chance you will be within an arms length and breathing in each others face. This by far is riskier than the donation in the first place.

So with regards to the original question; it makes no sense to me to alter your setup, since doing that (and retraining some muscle memory) will introduce another risk on it's own.
Quite frankly, the bigger risk is skipping your buddy check as a team.

Yes I understand that Im considering a risk that has a TINY CHANCE of arising. The problem with your equation above is that you take the smallest component of that risk -- that someone will actually need to donate (1/10,000), and only consider it for one of the options.

That tiny risk (1/10,000) - that someone will need to donate a reg - is the same for either options, primary donate or traditional set-up. So logically, we would need to remove it from your equation above.

As I said throughout, we are all weighing a TINY RISK either way. If the need ever arises to donate a reg, in that small, not very likely circumstance (for both options), would me/my buddy prefer a reg that is:
a) confidently secured in my mouth/ below my chin, but may have my spit on it; or
b) possibly on my hip, possibly dangling, but doesnt have my immediate spit on it.

That, to me, is a very close question,

 

[Chavodel8en]

If you're worried about germs in your buddys mouth, how about the water you dive in? Wikpedia says the following: In a drop (one millilitre) of seawater, one can find 10 million viruses, one million bacteria and about 1,000 small protozoans and algae (called “protists”).

I don't think fresh water is much cleaner. If you're concerned about germs, maybe it's to stop diving at all? For me, I have other things to worry about then donating primary with germs or not.

You're like the 10th person to advise to stop diving "if Im so worried about germs".

Lol, I've been in seawater hundreds of times, with no ill effects, so Im not really worried about the germs in sea water. I love the ocean! Would never stop me diving.

I mean, aside from avoiding locations that have a high bacteria warning (which unfortunately happens alot when it rains locally).

 

[Chavodel8en]

By doing primary donate I think the chances are you will get germs more than not get germs. Not all germs are bad but there will be body fluid exchange and I don’t think there is any way around this, at least as quickly as a donate should be done. It’s possible that any thick saliva will not completely dissolve and get rinsed away from the time it takes to swap the reg. Also, if you turn the reg down as you pass it, the inside of the reg will remain somewhat dry, therefore the exhaled air vapor buildup will be aspired by the recipient.
If you’re worried about swapping spit with someone then go back to a standard octo. Something to think about. The only one I’m interested in swapping spit and breathing vapor with is my spouse.

I think this is what people are not taking into account. IF (and YES, ITS A HUGE IF) you need to use someone else's reg:

If its primary donate, then you may as well be French kissing that person. Yes its a small chance they will have The Rona. But its at least something to think about.

 

[formernuke]

Now that I am a technical diver, I much prefer the long hose primary/bungee necklace secondary set up. Donating the long hose during the OOA is easy and you never have to fumble to find your back up reg as it is always beneath your chin (inspect the necklace before each dive). More than likely I will sell my Hydros/Air 2 rec set up for a single tank wing for my harness to use this same set up for all of my diving. The long hose also has the advantage of some separation between you and most likely, the panicked diver

The primary reason I see and have so many students that use the longhose is to be safer in the water for you and your buddy. If my primary reg fails, I do not have to go looking for the dreaded octo. My backup is around my neck. Oh and what if someone kicks my reg out of my mouth? No need to blow bubbles, do the sweep and hope and pray I find my octo. I simply put in my backup around my neck so I can get gas and then I reach or sweep for the primary. This allows me to feel more comfortable when it comes to fixing my own emergencies. My buddy also knows what I am going to give him works. Now he is more comfortable.

Reminds me of when I did I refresher course because I had out of water for a while. I told them I dove long hose with necklace and would change just for a refresher, they said that was fine. The instructor had me do the take out the second stage throw over shoulder and retreive.....

What did I do removed second stage, tossed over shoulder, popped my necklace into my mouth and retrieved my primary.

When we came back up the instructor said "that was not what was briefed, you cheated......but you pass because you 1. Showed me you you know your setup, 2. You did it in the safest way possible."

 

[rjack321]

Frankly, this doesnt address my question. Im not concerned about my own regs being infected just by being out in the air.

Basically Im asking - in the off-chance that you need air - would you prefer to take a reg from someone's mouth, or hanging in the water on an octo-holder? I frankly would prefer the latter. And I know we're talking about a small risk.

I want the one in their mouth. It's obviously working and not full of junk (seaweed, sand, bits of shells, mud).

 

[Centrals]

Be self sufficient eg. diving with twin set or carry an extra tank!
Solo diving.
If you are diving from a boat, check the body temp of everyone on board, everyone should have a health certificate to declare that they are FREE from any contiguous disease. Personal liability insurance of US$10M.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I want the one in their mouth. It's obviously working and not full of junk (seaweed, sand, bits of shells, mud).

If a person maintains and checks their octo in a standard set up it shouldn’t have any seaweed sand mud or junk in it anyway. A bungees octo that never gets used could be the same way. Everyone is supposed to check their gear before every dive anyway.