What has changed since early 80’s?

[NAM001]

We were doing safety stops in the 1970s; don't recall anyone rocketing to the surface; and while computers are, admittedly, a convenience, there is too much dependence placed upon them.

Dove a decade or more, simply, with a regulator, SPG, and a depth gauge, sans octopus; a ridiculous number of dives, before I purchased my first computer or safe second. Still keep tables in a bag.

Kept the Jetfins; passed the split-fin display . . .

would it be fair to say that with your initial training that the computer is non essential. and if so since the computer has arrived on the scene do you think that has caused agencies to stop training the aspects that for you made the computer a non essential. now making it an essential piece of equipment in relation to current diving curriculum. The reason I ask is to use a similar topic of cars spare tires and jacks. How to use a car jack used to be taught,,, now you are taught to use the cell phone and if that is no good you get the tank of fix a flat fill the tire and then continue driving to your destination or use the 50mph tire and use it untill you buy new tires. How to use the jack no longer gets taught. I see your point to a point. We also did not have emergency flashers. now we have them and you can count each day on your hand the drivers that act as if they were installed for telling other drivers to get out of the way because they are late for work school or an apt. Im not sure that todays divers without a computer have any tools to use.

 

[pauldw]

And then, for cross reference, there's the interesting question of what will happen in the next 40 years, one current thread being Why do Dive Centers and Professionals do it to themselves?

 

[dead dog]

Im not sure that todays divers without a computer have any tools to use.

They could still use their brain and good sense. When I started there were no computers. We (I) would study the decom tables, I used flip cards as I used in school to learn math. You only need a watch, depth gauge, and good sense. Some divers would carry the plastic decom cards with them. Don't ever pass up on using your brain and good sense.

 

[Augustus]

one thing not mentioned is accurte depth gauges. I really don't think there were any super accurate gauges out there aside from the capillary gauges which worked for shallow stops. This made using the tables fun since you really were not certain of depth (at least with what I was using Scubapro back then)

 

[EireDiver606]

Safety has improved a lot. The sport also isn't as much as a chest thumping sport as it used to be with 9 inch (blunt) knives etc.

Deep air diving has decreased and we've started using clever gases more regularly like he.

Smoking divers are shot at dawn.

 

[NAM001]

They could still use their brain and good sense. When I started there were no computers. We (I) would study the decom tables, I used flip cards as I used in school to learn math. You only need a watch, depth gauge, and good sense. Some divers would carry the plastic decom cards with them. Don't ever pass up on using your brain and good sense.

Excellent point. IMO that only stands if you were taught the theory and math to do it, to begin with. Training today does not consider diving with out one for the most part. that is why tables are not taught and you dive with a computer and a trust me set of rules of thumb. There are those organizations that for the purpose of this discussion are anti computer groups. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you do it responsibly and apply it as needed. No new OW diver is ready to do that or the dives that they do. the 99% group do not think like those mentioned do, and are not taught to do so either. retrieve your mask retrieve your reg take some tests and here is your OW card. the learning and proof of understanding for those who subscribe to the anti computer groups is much higher than any run of the mill OW course. Any new diver can dive without a computer for the first dive. from that point you have no idea where you really are as far as residual N2.

The same goes for nitrox as it was mentioned. When many of us learned it it had the math and the understanding of PPO2 and equivilant air. In basic OW you had an understanding of PPN2 and narcosis. Now what is Nitrox. a couple of movies and how to fill out an air acceptance log and how to check your tank. It is really more about 200 for a class to tell you to use standard 32 or less and live with that.

As DIR goes no matter what any one says it is not a basic diving concept. It is an advanced diving concept being taught in the basic stages of diving. It is a very strict form of diving. Like one of the comments above "smokers shot at dawn" Smoking is a taboo because of the DIR phylosophy. smokers use more air and your air is every ones air. So using more of your air you use ,,, that you paid for,,,, is really steeling the teams air. Its roots are based on physically fitness to dive. That is fine for all those that want to do that. however there are more divers that do not want to make it an activity that they have to work at ,,,,,when they want to dive for pleasure. There is a place for everything and diving to 150 ft and beyond is an region that the structure of DIR is probably the most practical. I would call it skills that match the dives intended. I know that the DIR group feel that you should learn the best practice's to begin with as opposed to retraining later,,,, but,,,, Sorry I dont need valve drills, ratio deco or ability to shooot a buoy while keeping trim and depth +/- 2 ft to do a direct ascend to the surface from a 50 ft dive especially when a 50 ft dive is a rec dive and not a tech dive. The majority of the DIR concepts are tech diving borne and can be used in both rec and tech. But it is not necessary to do so. Use of computers or the opposition of computers is not something most divers can handle any more than a car with out a speedometer and being told to count telephone poles instead because the wire or cable to the speedometer is a failure point.

 

[NAM001]

one thing not mentioned is accurte depth gauges. I really don't think there were any super accurate gauges out there aside from the capillary gauges which worked for shallow stops. This made using the tables fun since you really were not certain of depth (at least with what I was using Scubapro back then)

depth gages were reasonably close especially when the tables had so much slop in its prescribed use.. such as a 72 ft dive for 13 minutes calls for using the table coordinates of a 80 ft dive for 20 minutes depending on whose table you are using. tables are designed to CREATE and cover the worst condition. If I make a dive to 72 ft i want the NDL for 72 ft and not 80. for the most part DC depth gages are pretty darn good.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I began diving with a backpack and wing, simple paddle fins, weight belt, and a purge mask. I worked at a dive shop for many years and went through lighter fins, weight integrated BCs that often lost weight pockets and various masks. For the past two decades I have been using a weight belt, Jet fins, purge mask, and backplate/wing with a crotch strap. This configuration works better for me than any I had tried in the previous decade+. Some of my buddies still use horse collars and do just fine. My friend Andy even bought a new horse collar recently.

 

[dead dog]

Excellent point. IMO that only stands if you were taught the theory and math to do it, to begin with. Training today does not consider diving with out one for the most part. that is why tables are not taught and you dive with a computer and a trust me set of rules of thumb. There are those organizations that for the purpose of this discussion are anti computer groups. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you do it responsibly and apply it as needed. No new OW diver is ready to do that or the dives that they do. the 99% group do not think like those mentioned do, and are not taught to do so either. retrieve your mask retrieve your reg take some tests and here is your OW card. the learning and proof of understanding for those who subscribe to the anti computer groups is much higher than any run of the mill OW course. Any new diver can dive without a computer for the first dive. from that point you have no idea where you really are as far as residual N2.

The same goes for nitrox as it was mentioned. When many of us learned it it had the math and the understanding of PPO2 and equivilant air. In basic OW you had an understanding of PPN2 and narcosis. Now what is Nitrox. a couple of movies and how to fill out an air acceptance log and how to check your tank. It is really more about 200 for a class to tell you to use standard 32 or less and live with that.

As DIR goes no matter what any one says it is not a basic diving concept. It is an advanced diving concept being taught in the basic stages of diving. It is a very strict form of diving. Like one of the comments above "smokers shot at dawn" Smoking is a taboo because of the DIR phylosophy. smokers use more air and your air is every ones air. So using more of your air you use ,,, that you paid for,,,, is really steeling the teams air. Its roots are based on physically fitness to dive. That is fine for all those that want to do that. however there are more divers that do not want to make it an activity that they have to work at ,,,,,when they want to dive for pleasure. There is a place for everything and diving to 150 ft and beyond is an region that the structure of DIR is probably the most practical. I would call it skills that match the dives intended. I know that the DIR group feel that you should learn the best practice's to begin with as opposed to retraining later,,,, but,,,, Sorry I dont need valve drills, ratio deco or ability to shooot a buoy while keeping trim and depth +/- 2 ft to do a direct ascend to the surface from a 50 ft dive especially when a 50 ft dive is a rec dive and not a tech dive. The majority of the DIR concepts are tech diving borne and can be used in both rec and tech. But it is not necessary to do so. Use of computers or the opposition of computers is not something most divers can handle any more than a car with out a speedometer and being told to count telephone poles instead because the wire or cable to the speedometer is a failure point.

WHOA, I'm not anti-computer, in fact, I own three of them. I can't wait to get my next one that ties into my bloodstream to measure the Nitrogen to 0.999%, also the new computer will reduce the size of the bubbles to make a faster time to the surface.

So I agree with you 100%, but you still have a brain that's better than any computer, actually, it is a computer.

 

[NAM001]

WHOA, I'm not anti-computer, in fact, I own three of them. I can't wait to get my next one that ties into my bloodstream to measure the Nitrogen to 0.999%, also the new computer will reduce the size of the bubbles to make a faster time to the surface.

So I agree with you 100%, but you still have a brain that's better than any computer, actually, it is a computer.

We both had a totally different pipeline of training long before it was dumbed down. Todays divers did not get the advantage of learning the whys as we did so they have no reference to exercise good judgement. With out that older type of training they have no basis to reason with. There are those that are anti computer types and do everything n their heads. For me the computer is a tool and I compare its outputs with my expectations , aa type of check and ballance of sorts,,,,much like i assume you also do. We are older divers and we both can still recognize and use a rotary phone to make a call.