Opening Of Indonesia pushed to end of 2020?

[DownUnderwater Dan]

I don't need a vaccine (am not against vaccines, but also never took influenza vaccines), I just want the life before march 2020 back. Fly around the world without any limitations. I am not afraid of getting ill. Sweden used the best policy. There is also written in several newspapers that the virus already mutated into mild(er). You also see it here, lot of (false) positives, but hospitals empty. I know people who are in riskgroups, but still want a normal life back and see it just as a minimal risk.
I don't know any person that got it and died. I only know 1 that got it, but he is already diving again. I think we must accept this small risk and restart the economics worldwide.
In my country is calculated that the years of life saved are 14.000 till 23.000, but the years lost are 100.000 till 400.000.
De andere rekening van de coronazorg: ‘Door uitgestelde zorg gingen 100 tot 400 duizend levensjaren verloren’

I think this is also the same in other countries. In Germany you had in may already more suicides than normally in 1 year. Also we see here patients that could not get helped with cancer and heartproblems that died because everything is corona. The balance is wrong I think.

I cannot wait till we can fly around the world without any limitation again. I have plans enough.
Bali is still on the list. But also Egypt, Mexico.

I couldn't agree more with your post!

 

[Luko]

Sweden used the best policy.

Yeah? oh well even the guy charge acknowledges the limit of this strategy, 10 times more deaths than its neighbours... and where are they now? in the same boat as many other european countries. Only very few would want swede tourists in their countries.
Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died

 

[Germie]

Yeah? oh well even the guy charge acknowledges the limit of this strategy, 10 times more deaths than its neighbours... and where are they now? in the same boat as many other european countries. Only very few would want swede tourists in their countries.
Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died

'Pandemie in Zweden voorbij dankzij bereiken groepsimmuniteit'
A dutch article.

“Epidemie in Zweden voorbij dankzij groepsimmuniteit” | Metro
Belgium article

 

[Luko]

'Pandemie in Zweden voorbij dankzij bereiken groepsimmuniteit'
A dutch article.

“Epidemie in Zweden voorbij dankzij groepsimmuniteit” | Metro
Belgium article

Oh ok... having 10 times more deaths to perform a so called "herd immunity" was the good way to go.(that never happened in recent history without a vaccine btw)

I guess you read the last paragraph mentioning that it is way too early to declare the pandemia has ended anywhere. As rightly noticed, in many european countries the number of cases have been decreasing in august down to less than 15/100000 are now more than 10 fold the value they had beginning of august.
Currently the last figures on a 14 day rolling average are Sweden 30/100000 infection rate very close to Italy and Greece on the same period.
If you compare on a day to day basis (which is never something to do for statstical analysis), Sweden is 1/1000000 new case while Norway is very close at 1,5/1000000.

 

[Germie]

I think everybody must belief what they want to belief. But here I don't see any numbers that make me worrying about this virus. I just look at the numbers here and here is nothing wrong, we have high numbers, but a lot are false positives and the numbers of hospitalised and death are not going up. Let everybody decide for their own if they want to take a (small) risk or not. Like you do with other diseases also. Then the weak people protect theirselves. This has nothing to do with egoism or no respect, but with the truth as a human lives normally. The economy must go further and if you lost a friend or family member because of deferred cancer care, this is also sad and more sad because there is no life saved.
The calculations for my country are as I mentioned before are only 14.000 till 21.000 years saved, but 100.000 till 400.000 years lost because of suicided, deferred care (cancer, hearthattacks, operations, etc). The scale is in the wrong way now. That is also important to know.
But this is my country, and I don't know if people are dying in Indonesia. But I know we can go back to normal here.Happely you see more and more people saying: no, this is enough, we go back to normal.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Airlines push for coronavirus tests before international flights

“We don’t see any alternative solution that would be less challenging or more effective,” IATA Director General Alexandre de Juniac said.


International air travel can only be revived by Covid-19 testing: IATA

“IATA is calling for the systematic testing of all international passengers before departure,” states IATA director general Alexandre de Juniac. ”This will enable governments to safely open borders without quarantine”.

Crucially, de Juniac continues, it will also ”provide passengers with the certainty that they will be able to travel without worrying about last-minute changes that could spoil their plans”, while giving them confidence that fellow travellers are Covid-free.


Today's news, a logical step in the right direction. I hope Presiden Jokowi adopts this new protocol that will restore happiness to many people's lives, in the essence of Marcus Aurelius

 

[Luko]

“IATA is calling for the systematic testing of all international passengers before departure,” states IATA director general Alexandre de Juniac. ”This will enable governments to safely open borders without quarantine”.

Crucially, de Juniac continues, it will also ”provide passengers with the certainty that they will be able to travel without worrying about last-minute changes that could spoil their plans”, while giving them confidence that fellow travellers are Covid-free.

De Juniac who's french (and my wife's ex boss) should have considered the testing situation in many countries, inlcuding his home country,that are testing full throttle and cannot manage the flow, currently people are running everywhere asking for PCR tests like beheaded ducks. Some of them carrying symptoms rightly entitled to be tested, and many other hypocondriacs asking for a test to comfort themselves after they've been talking on the phone to somebody who has met an asymptomatic.
Practically and due to the overflow it is near to impossible to get the result of a PCR test within 4 days in France, hence nobody can fly now. Great.


De Juniac's ex-company AirFrance aknowledged a dramatic dearth of passengers the last couple of weeks because of the impossibility to get a PCR test 72h prior to check in, this is nipping in the bud the weak pickup of tickets sales that was observed in august ( I flew Paris-Tbilisi both ways on overbooked planes end of august, this is now history thanks to the 72h PCR test prior to flying.).
This is discouraging any attempt of flying and that showed almost immediately.

And btw, Georgia (the real one in Caucasus : land of good wine, culture and friendly people. And yes, they have peaches as well, the biggest you can find, 1,5 USD for a bucket of those.) had a really good tourism policy until now. They were testing all holiday passengers on arrival, without the need to get yourself a PCR test prior to checking in to your flight. They wanted to attract tourists so they arranged and organized themselves for that (internally they had one of the best COVID free record in the world, very few cases 1000 overall and only 25 deaths, that could be compared with HKG or Taiwan)
This is also the case in Paris, pax coming from red zones are tested on arrival.

 

[Luko]

but a lot are false positives

There is no such result that can be called a false positive in PCR tests, on the other side there are around 20% false negatives. calling a "false positive" test is at best a misunderstanding, most of the times it's network fake news widespread by whoever wants to use any argument to prove their point.
Tests don't invent virus traces, it is only a matter of a risk assessment owing to contamination probability. Where do you put the risk on the virus scale, if a test is positive that means you are carrying the virus but you may not carry such a viral charge that is dangerous.
There is still a debate over which level/cycle of virus is dangerous and contagious. And btw, at the time the test is performed you may not know whether the viral charge is on the increasing or decreasing side, so it may be slightly positive today and highly positive tomorrow. In either ways the notion of "False positive" is not scientifically correct, it's not a question of belief.

FYI read this if you can translate french
Covid-19 : l’hypersensibilité des tests PCR, entre intox et vrai débat

 

[tursiops]

I don't know any person that got it and died. I only know 1 that got it, but he is already diving again. I think we must accept this small risk and restart the economics worldwide.

Useless data, unless YOU know EVERYBODY.

 

[tursiops]

I couldn't agree more with your post!

Then you too are misinformed.