NTSB CONCEPTION HEARING - THIS TUESDAY @ 10AM

[boulderjohn]

You've uncomfortably moved from a hypothesis to a fact. And "blocked" is rather a strong word, given that people have shown they can successfully use that exit.

Sorry, I stand by my wording.

When I saw the pictures of that setup, my immediate thought was that even if I were able to get out, it would take a Hell of an effort and a lot of time, and NTSB Member Michael E. Graham agrees with me.

 

[John Bantin]

It's my understanding a roving watch is required by some regulation, so my question pertains to what's actually common practice ini the industry, because the lack of a roving watch is apt to be a major point of vilification against Truth Aquatics and the captain. I'm trying to get a sense of the industry culture that form a setting in which this took place.

Looking at the live-aboard industry in U.S. waters, how common is it to find a consistent roving watch through the night? As a rough rule of thumb for estimates, let's say it may be in the neighborhood of 25% of the time, 50% or 75%, give or take a few % either way. Which would it be?

I get that 'almost everybody does it' doesn't overrule a regulation. On the other hand, if everyone else but T.A. strictly obeyed, that would look worse, so I think it's a relevant question.

Next question...what about non-U.S. live-aboards, rather Caribbean, Pacific, Indonesia, Red Sea, Maldives, etc...? Any idea if a roving watch is reliably commonplace there?

I ask because I wonder if people aghast Truth Aquatics didn't have a roving watch often spend time on live-aboards elsewhere that lack it, and don't give it a thought.

P.S.: I'm not asking to 'name and shame' any live-aboard operators. Just trying to get a better feel for the industry broadly.

Vessels at anchor are at the mercy of wind and water. It is a very foolhardy captain who does not have someone on watch at night. Since they are usually moored or anchored near a dive site such as a reef, constant vigilence is needed if the vessel is not to be lost. At the same time, machinery such as generators need attending to and there is ALWAYS the risk of fire. Quick action mitigates the effects of this. I think you'll find that most (valuable) vessels employ a night watch. I certainly did my stint when I worked on the LJV in the Red Sea.

 

[scubadada]

Sorry, I stand by my wording.

When I saw the pictures of that setup, my immediate thought was that even if I were able to get out, it would take a Hell of an effort and a lot of time, and NTSB Member Michael E. Graham agrees with me.

I believe NTSB Member Jennifer Homendy tried out the emergency exit on the Vision during her visit, and commented in the hearing how difficult it was

 

[sea_ledford]

As an example of how fast things can change on the water; I was captaining a smallish day boat (48'), and had tied up to a "maintained" mooring, on a trip with 25 or so passengers, regular windy day by Maui standards. While the pax were in the water, mostly snorkelers, I was helping out with something or another on the lower deck (controls were on the fly bridge). I suddenly noticed a distinct change in the way the boat was rocking. I stood up looked at the deckhand, and we both instantly knew we had lost the mooring. I ran up to the bridge, deckhand got people that were actively climbing the ladder on board, and yelled at everyone else to move away from the vessel, other deckhand pulled in the mooring line. In that time, maybe a minute, we had drifted close enough to another vessel that I made contact, as I was trying to pull away, causing about $10K in damage between the two boats.

The mooring had pulled up from the bottom. If I was another 15 seconds slower, we would have been pinned to the bow of the catamaran I slightly hit, and I can't imagine the damage and/or injuries that would have caused.

Why anyone would moor close to an island, over night, without a night watch/captain is utterly beyond me. I made it out by less than 15 seconds and I was awake, active, paying attention and had two deckhands that were spot on and saved my bacon. Not having a night watch isn't even a cost saving measure, it is a complete dereliction of duty and self preservation. All it would have taken was a broken line or poor anchor position and the boat would be on the rocks or blown into another vessel at anchor. Doesn't even take a fire to have a nightwatch to be a valuable ROI. I can guarantee you TA have experienced a loss of anchor at SOME point in their history. They were just, apparently, unwilling to learn from close calls.

 

[Wookie]

It's my understanding a roving watch is required by some regulation, so my question pertains to what's actually common practice ini the industry, because the lack of a roving watch is apt to be a major point of vilification against Truth Aquatics and the captain. I'm trying to get a sense of the industry culture that form a setting in which this took place.

Looking at the live-aboard industry in U.S. waters, how common is it to find a consistent roving watch through the night? As a rough rule of thumb for estimates, let's say it may be in the neighborhood of 25% of the time, 50% or 75%, give or take a few % either way. Which would it be?

I get that 'almost everybody does it' doesn't overrule a regulation. On the other hand, if everyone else but T.A. strictly obeyed, that would look worse, so I think it's a relevant question.

Next question...what about non-U.S. live-aboards, rather Caribbean, Pacific, Indonesia, Red Sea, Maldives, etc...? Any idea if a roving watch is reliably commonplace there?

I ask because I wonder if people aghast Truth Aquatics didn't have a roving watch often spend time on live-aboards elsewhere that lack it, and don't give it a thought.

P.S.: I'm not asking to 'name and shame' any live-aboard operators. Just trying to get a better feel for the industry broadly.

There are likely no more than 10 inspected diving liveaboards left in the USA, 1 in New Jersey, 3 in Florida, 1 in Texas, the balance in California. I’ve never heard of one of them having a dedicated roving watch. I know many of them personally, and of all, I only know of 2 that maintain a dedicated watch 24/7. That watch is a navigational watch.

My COI never had the roving watch designator. I expect that’s because my boat was a converted oilfield boat, and oilfield boats typically operate a 2 watch system with a master/mate (navigational watch) and a deckhand/deckineer (roving watch) on watch. But oilfield COIs do not spell out the roving watch, it’s just expected.

 

[Wookie]

As an example of how fast things can change on the water; I was captaining a smallish day boat (48'), and had tied up to a "maintained" mooring, on a trip with 25 or so passengers, regular windy day by Maui standards. While the pax were in the water, mostly snorkelers, I was helping out with something or another on the lower deck (controls were on the fly bridge). I suddenly noticed a distinct change in the way the boat was rocking. I stood up looked at the deckhand, and we both instantly knew we had lost the mooring. I ran up to the bridge, deckhand got people that were actively climbing the ladder on board, and yelled at everyone else to move away from the vessel, other deckhand pulled in the mooring line. In that time, maybe a minute, we had drifted close enough to another vessel that I made contact, as I was trying to pull away, causing about $10K in damage between the two boats.

The mooring had pulled up from the bottom. If I was another 15 seconds slower, we would have been pinned to the bow of the catamaran I slightly hit, and I can't imagine the damage and/or injuries that would have caused.

Why anyone would moor close to an island, over night, without a night watch/captain is utterly beyond me. I made it out by less than 15 seconds and I was awake, active, paying attention and had two deckhands that were spot on and saved my bacon. Not having a night watch isn't even a cost saving measure, it is a complete dereliction of duty and self preservation. All it would have taken was a broken line or poor anchor position and the boat would be on the rocks or blown into another vessel at anchor. Doesn't even take a fire to have a nightwatch to be a valuable ROI. I can guarantee you TA have experienced a loss of anchor at SOME point in their history. They were just, apparently, unwilling to learn from close calls.

I was moored on Stetson #2 one August night and on the crapper when my mooring broke and I raked down the side of the Fling. No damage to the Fling, but it tore away 30 feet of bulwarks on the Spree and tore the crap out of the corner of the house. As you say, tens of thousands of damage, and it wasn’t windy.

I still have mooring/crapper mental issues.

 

[Marie13]

There are likely no more than 10 diving liveaboards left in the USA, 1 in New Jersey, 3 in Florida, 1 in Texas, the balance in California. I’ve never heard of one of them having a dedicated roving watch. I know many of them personally, and of all, I only know of 2 that maintain a dedicated watch 24/7. That watch is a navigational watch.

My COI never had the roving watch designator. I expect that’s because my boat was a converted oilfield boat, and oilfield boats typically operate a 2 watch system with a master/mate (navigational watch) and a deckhand/deckineer (roving watch) on watch. But oilfield COIs do not spell out the roving watch, it’s just expected.

There is actually one diving liveaboard on Lake Superior that visits the wrecks around Isle Royale. It sails out of Minnesota.

 

[Wookie]

There is actually one diving liveaboard on Lake Superior that visits the wrecks around Isle Royale. It sails out of Minnesota.

And there will be another, but is the Isle Royal boat inspected? Or is it a 6/12 pack?

 

[Marie13]

And there will be another, but is the Isle Royal boat inspected? Or is it a 6/12 pack?

I’m really not sure. I don’t have time right now to check online.

 

[KevinNM]

With all this information spread out over 2 threads, I am more than a little confused about a couple of things, and something I think I remember reading somewhere comes to mind, but I can't find it.

I thought I read crews on the truth Aquatics boats were under the impression that if they had a crew member sleeping in the same bunk area as the passengers, that met the requirement of a roving watch. I don't see how anyone could think that, but I am pretty sure I read it somewhere.

Yes, that came from a captain. Not sure current or past or what boat. Vaguely think it was a past vision captain.