Ginnie Springs diver missing - Florida

[tbone1004]

I keep reading needing more equipment to solve a skills problem. Why the change of heart when it comes to this circumstance?

I don't get that we're looking for an equipment solution. I think tbone was just giving his opinion on something that could be beneficial. Unfortunately it's truly something that's unnecessary if you're doing a good job of being mentally aware of you rebreather, but it seems alot of divers become complacent and distracted and fail to follow the basics.
I think thus far the assumptions most are making is this was caused by a distracted diver, who many feel was diving above his skill level.

Correct, there are equipment solutions to skills problems in terms of unnecessary gear, and there is just unnecessary gear. Having 3 ppO2 monitor systems on there is excessive and stupid *yes one of my rebreathers has 3 of them, no I'm not happy about it, but whatever, the old Meg's were weird*, having an analog SP. Having a HUD makes diving a rebreather easier if the HUD is designed properly. On the 2-LED hud on my Meg, you can fly the thing at 1.1 with very little conscious effort. As soon as you see the red LED go off, then you tap the O2 mav, if you see them all start double blinking then you need to breathe it down and if you see them going crazy you dil flush. That is an eCCR that I run manually in parachute mode so the solenoid is there to "catch" me if I am not paying attention for some reason or can't see it because it's super bright out. eCCR's when functioning properly do not require active participation from the diver to maintain consciousness, and this is why QD's and shutoffs to the solenoid are seriously frowned upon.
With an mCCR that CAN NOT sustain consciousness on its own and ALWAYS requires ACTIVE participation from the diver, you need some sort of parachute to catch you. I personally don't think a HUD is good enough and that is where having haptic alarms from my handset gives me a lot of warm fuzzies. You seriously can't ignore this thing, it is both obnoxiously loud and you can feel it through 7mm wetsuits *drysuits are easier to feel haptics though, 7mm not so much*. It has the safe effect as hitting the rumble strips on a highway when you are focused on something else.

I do not believe having a parachute to catch you is an equipment solution to a skills problem...

 

[PfcAJ]

Rebreather is even extra because hypoxia affects your ability to detect hypoxia.

 

[PfcAJ]

Every rebreather diver needs to watch this.

 

[rddvet]

you don't miss the pornstar-grade dildo going off on your arm when the Divesoft computers hit a ppO2 limit...

Is that why they removed a dildo (I believe purple) from the line at ginnie about 6 months back? Somebody's divesoft explode? Should rename them divehard

 

[DiveProKoko]

Regarding my earlier post in this thread about looking to the public records of law enforcement, coroners and litigation with the expectation of determining the cause of a rebreather accident is an unrealistic expectation. ....investigations into the causes of closed-circuit accidents is an unnecessary or unproductive exercise.......it is unfortunate we have no infrastructure that can perform such investigations without fear of consequences....

I'm a homicide detective and work on "privatized" and high profile cases all the time. You're right in that you typically can't get access to some of these records. At least not right away. However, a diving "accident" like this should be cleared pretty quickly once they determine there is no foul play involved. In most states, once cleared, you can file a FOIA request and get everything related to the case, including the police reports, medical examiner report, etc. Having said that, as you pointed out, it may not give you much in the grand scheme of things. There will likely not be a "professional" opinion on why the incident occured, but only a determination that it is not criminal in nature, then they move on and close it. And the medical examiner cause and manner report will likely read something like, "the subject died an accidental death due to hypoxia." This of course only tells you how they died, not WHY they died so there is probably little to learn from this info in making diving safer, etc. If the rescue divers listed something in their report, it may be in there, but don't count on it.

 

[helodriver87]

Every rebreather diver needs to watch this.

I'd argue that every rebreather diver needs to do that, not just see it. My last altitude chamber training session was the first one I've done since learning to dive CCR and it was more eye opening than usual. I just wish it wasn't so difficult to get access to that training outside of aviation. Actually feeling the onset of symptoms and recognizing when the lights are about to go out and taking corrective action is huge.

 

[jadairiii]

Here is another one

 

[Manatee Diver]

Sometimes hardware fixes are necessary. You can talk all you want about training, but when a clear hardware fix can make it easier for a see and correct the situation.

It is like having a self destruct button on an airplane. Sure you might want it easy to find, but you probably want it to be something requires a deliberate action to use, and not someplace where it might be inadvertently pressed, like right next to the radio transmit button on the stick.

 

[SCUBAwithMitch]

Based on your arguments, perhaps we should have a HUD or vibration alert on SPGs? Maybe when you reach 700psi?

 

[tbone1004]

Sometimes hardware fixes are necessary. You can talk all you want about training, but when a clear hardware fix can make it easier for a see and correct the situation.

It is like having a self destruct button on an airplane. Sure you might want it easy to find, but you probably want it to be something requires a deliberate action to use, and not someplace where it might be inadvertently pressed, like right next to the radio transmit button on the stick.

some rebreathers have vibrating handsets and even vibrating HUD's... unfortunately Shearwater does not. They have been pressured about it for years and finally gave some sort of haptic hints with the Teric and the Peregrine. The Petrel is getting very long in the tooth and even the NERD2 is due for an update, so hopefully both of those will get it as part of their next upgrade and that will bring a huge level of safety to the rebreathers out there.