Have you ever been refused to be allowed to dive?

[MichaelMc]

Some very good responses thank you! Many seem to take offense by my word "scam". Well I stand behind that word. When we were both certified, 1977(me) and 1983 (her) the training was significantly more robust. Ok, it seems like it was a level of magnitude above current training. Our instructor was an ex navy seal and he cut us NO slack. I pulled out my old PADI training.books and there is no depth limitation anywhere in it. PADI changed the rules and why? Only to make money. Why should we be penalized, made to pay for what we have already paid for? B

It is not clear that Padi changed the rules about the card they issued you. Just that many individual dive operators have decided - possibly due to current class syllabi, insurance, and front desk training reasons - that they want something stamped with AOW for dives past 60'. You can still dive elsewhere with your existing card or roll the dice on explaining things to the operators that want something stamped AOW. Or you can get an AOW card if you want your dive charter scheduling to be simpler.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I am AOW but wife is only OW. When she was certified, early 80's, there was never a 60 ft limitation. She has over 800 dives, we dove Indonesia liveaboard and often hit 80 to 100 feet in Bonaire. Never had any concerns. Once we wanted to dive Spiegel in Florida the next day. Boat captain explained AWO unless approved by the shop owner. As we kitted up he watched us, talked about where we had dived and obviously watched us dive. We returned to the boat and all of a sudden the our certification level was no problem. I have a hard ti!e justifying paying PADI for a unneeded "badge*. Seems like a scam to me. So.has anyone been refused a dive became they were not AOW? B

No, I have never been refused a dive.

I haven't read all 8 pages, but surely someone posted a link to the hilarious "Hitler Isn't AOW" video.

I think your wife's story shows that the system works. I have faith in the system. Dive op rules may say "AOW" or "current deep dive" or whatever, but if someone's qualifications don't meet the rule, there may be ways to get the op to make an exception. People that the op has never seen before show up one day and expect, sometimes even demand, to do a challenging dive that same day. If a diver is only there for one day, maybe he's not serious about that dive. If a dive is that important to the diver, the diver should give the op time to get to know them.

The rules are put in place not just to satisfy insurance companies but by well-meaning dive op owners with the goal of keeping as many people safe as they can. Sure, an individual diver may feel he is the exception. We all feel we are the exception. It's those OTHER people who are the poor divers, poor drivers, irresponsible, etc.--never us. The diver may or may not be successful in getting the dive op to make an exception, but the diver should realize he is just one of many customers, and the rule is there to keep as many people safe as possible, even if it inconveniences the occasional person who really should be an "exception." If a dive shop questions whether I am up to a particular dive, maybe they are right--I should reconsider it. Rather than argue I am the exception, I would err on the side of conservatism and feel satisfied in my belief they at least kept someone else safe with their blanket rule.

There was a SB member a few years back who died on the Spiegel Grove (or maybe it was the Duane) on his second day of the trip. He was apparently a newer diver, and his enthusiasm showed, posting even along his road trip down to the Keys. It was probably a medical event, but it seems to me that physical fitness, training, and experience are all inter-related. The currents can be strong. You need to know what you're doing, be confident but not over-confident, know how to avoid the current, known when it makes sense to fight the current, and know when to fold 'em (surface with an SMB in defeat). I trust that most dive shops know how to size up a diver, at least after seeing them the first day. Sure, occasionally the teen behind the counter will tell you rules are rules. But the rules are well-intentioned. If someone were to refuse to allow me to dive because of X rule, I would appreciate their caution and happily dive another day.

 

[oly5050user]

I believe it was in 2017. The issue was with the kid at the front desk who never heard of NASDS. In full disclosure, I had PADI cards too, but I thought I would be cute and try the NASDS card for grins n' giggles...

Think I will try that with mine from around 1967-1968

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

“Have I ever been refused to be allowed to dive”
Yeah lots of times by my wife who makes sure all the honeydo’s are done before I’m allowed to leave.

 

[ATJ]

I have never been refused a dive.

My original certification was in 1978 with FAUI (Federation of Australian Underwater Instructors). My original card was cardboard but was replaced in 1979 with a plastic credit card sized card which has SCUBA DIVER in large letters. I still have the car but it is so old and cracked it is held together with sticky tape.

It is sort of the equivalent of OW (because there was also an Advanced Scuba Diver cert) but our training covered a lot more than the standard PADI OW - we did night dives, rescues, etc. I don't believe we had a depth limit and when I look at the prerequisites for Advanced Scuba Diver you had to have logged 40 divers since the Scuba Diver qualification of which 5 had to be to at least 30m, 5 had to be logged at night, and total time logged had to be at least 25 hours. i.e. with my SCUBA DIVER qualification I could do night dives and dive beyond 30m.

That was the only certification I had until 2011. In that time I only once dived overseas (Vanuatu) and was not refused any dives. I had dives on the Undersea Explorer to the Coral Sea a number of times without problems.

While I wasn't refused any dives in Vanuatu, they did look at me funny when I pulled out my SCUBA DIVER card that was held together with sticky tape so when I got home I did a PADI Rescue Course so I had a high enough certification that I couldn't get hassled (just in case).

 

[Coztick]

After doing the OW cert. dives on a Mexican vacation, I didn't dive for a few years.
I started back 8 years ago at a PADI dive op. They had me do ow skills and demonstrate buoyancy control in a pool.
It took about 10 or 15 minutes and I was cleared to dive. I'm thinking it was a shallow first dive as well but I wasn't restricted to 60ft. at all that trip.

 

[Esprise Me]

I got certified locally right before a planned trip to Playa del Carmen. I told the dive op there that I was interested in the bull shark dive and cenotes. They told me the bull shark dive required AOW or at least Adventure Diver, with the deep dive being one of the 3 specialties, but that they could sign me up for that dive and make it part of the course. I agreed and ultimately got my AOW done there. For the cenote, even though it was an overhead environment, they actually didn't require any certification beyond OW. However, given my stated lack of experience, they suggested I do that dive later in the trip. Unfortunately, the weather didn't cooperate, and the cenotes were the only thing that was diveable when I got there. They proposed sending me with a group to Dos Ojos, having me do a quick check dive in the open water portion of the cenote, and then either having me go with the group or setting me up with a snorkel tour, depending on how that went. I agreed, passed muster on the check dive, and got to see the bat cave and Barbie line.

Looking back, I can't decide if all that was tremendously stupid or if it made perfect sense. The shark dive was the easiest "deep" dive imaginable; just descend through gin-clear 80 degree water to a thick rope along a sandy bottom at 80 feet, kneel, and watch the sharks swim around until the guide brought everyone up. Did I really need another cert card for that? Well, maybe. I do remember feeling nearly overwhelmed with anxiety at the thought of going so deep, and having to do my first-ever backroll, that I needed to just pause for a minute on the surface and take some deep breaths before descending. It sure was nice to have an instructor and some additional info on what to expect. And I'm not sure how insistent they would have been if I'd had more experience but still no AOW cert.

Conversely, what the hell was I doing in a cavern with a single-digit dive count? Well, I wasn't crashing into the stalactites, at least! I actually did have pretty decent buoyancy control and situational awareness even then. My air consumption sucked, but the guide was prepared for that. She told me to signal when I hit a certain point, I did, and she took us back on a shorter path than originally planned, so that I ended with plenty of gas remaining. Definitely a trust-me dive, but she was pretty trustworthy, as it turns out.

Since then I haven't been turned down or told I need another cert for anything. I have a friend who only has an OW cert but has the skills for basically any dive within recreational limits. He hasn't been able to do the oil rigs, as charter operators want to see that AOW card, but there's one local boat that knows him well and will take him along wherever they're going. Around here, at least, I feel like a lot of dive operators err on the side of allowing unqualified people to do difficult and dangerous dives, rather than turning people down. I don't envy the position they're in.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

Interesting... I am leaving for Jupiter, FL tomorrow. One of the operators was very interested in our dive experience, especially with drift dives. A plurality, if not a majority, of my dives have been in Cozumel, where currents cannot only be swift, they can be downright hairy. From what I have read, there's no danger of a down current on the coast, as it is a flat bottom (please correct me if I am wrong). The only added degree of difficulty I am seeing is the lack of concierge service I get in Coz. (I'm spoiled)

I've had an up current diving in Jupiter that surprised me. Walls that you dive there typically are only 30-40 feet tall with the sand bottom at 90-100 feet and the top of the wall in the 60 foot range

 

[vespers_]

Yes. I got my OW in 2006. Spent over 10 years diving in Canada on the St Lawrence River and the coasts. We have a boat and our own gear. Up here cold water, high current, and low visibility is the norm. Nobody goes diving with "guides". They just get their tanks filled and go. silly 60' depth limits are a joke here.

Then I started traveling to tropical destinations and was looked down on for being only OW. I guess I could see why as half the AOW and rescue divers i saw on the boats were complete garbage and could barely put on their fins. They hand out certs like candy to anyone in the tropics.

They told me I could not do the threshers in Malapascua because it was to 100' and forced me to do a deep adventure dive.

Eventually I did a rescue course just so people would shut about my certs and i wouldn't have to argue with people that have never been out of the tropics and don't get what cold water diving is.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes. I got my OW in 2006. Spent over 10 years diving in Canada on the St Lawrence River and the coasts. We have a boat and our own gear. Up here cold water, high current, and low visibility is the norm. Nobody goes diving with "guides". They just get their tanks filled and go. silly 60' depth limits are a joke here.

Then I started traveling to tropical destinations and was looked down on for being only OW. I guess I could see why as half the AOW and rescue divers i saw on the boats were complete garbage and could barely put on their fins. They hand out certs like candy to anyone in the tropics.

They told me I could not do the threshers in Malapascua because it was to 100' and forced me to do a deep adventure dive.

Eventually I did a rescue course just so people would shut about my certs and i wouldn't have to argue with people that have never been out of the tropics and don't get what cold water diving is.

Well you have been doing what I usually do, but with your own boat. Of course you can do whatever you want. But you probably know that if you are taking a charter, especially in the tropics, but of course in the U.S. and probably Canada too, some are gunna want to see AOW or even Deep certs. before they let you do that. You know, the liability thing.
Don't forget the many times you also read on Scubaboard about DMs and instructors who also suck and crash into reefs (haven't personally seen that myself).