Upgrading from a Rec Kit to a Tech Kit

[100days-a-year]

I figured out my budget and goals first and then how much I was willing to give up to pursue those goals.
With training, gear and travel it is easy to get into 10s of thousands of dollars per year.
I bought the best gear available at the time without any brand loyalty as my instructor had recommended.
Looking back, I overshot my goals but had some priceless experience as a result. Seems to be pretty common as there is always a lot of tech gear available relatively new with only training classes and a few dives on it.

 

[stretchthepenn]

Before you buy anything do Intro To Tech. Part of the point of the training is to help with knowing what you need to buy.

ITT is a valid option, but depending on the OP's experience level, it's not necessarily the best class to take. If you, the OP, are still a n00b and just getting interested in Tec diving, then ITT could be fantastic for you. On the other hand, if you've got excellent buoyancy and experience blowing bags, then your AN/DP instructor could incorporate the how-to-dive-a-twinset into the course. I, for example, learned to dive doubles during my Tec40 class.

You should prioritise the drysuit. That has to fit and is hard to borrow or rent.

Don’t buy a secondhand suit. You may be buying someone else’s problems. Don’t go mad on options and cost unless you have money to burn. You don’t want complications like dry gloves yet.

I halfway agree. Going nuts on options is a sucker's game. My first drysuit was an entry-level "Dolphin" suit, by OS Systems out of Scappoose, OR. It cost me $800, including a fleece jumpsuit, and I used it for about ten years.

That being said, a used drysuit isn't necessarily a bad option. If standard sizes fit you well, a used drysuit is a massive moneysaver, much akin to buying a used car versus a new car. Plus, if you hate that particular drysuit, you can likely unload it at the same price you paid and try another variety.

Dry gloves, though, could be a near-necessity for you in Oregon. Don't make them a deal-breaker item, but if your fingers get numb on your regular, recreational dives, you'll definitely want dry gloves on deco dives.

Then do Intro To Tech. The idea here is to learn about kit, configs and so forth. Trying to buy the kit for the course that teaches you about kit is backwards and may lead to questions like “Why did you feel the need to have two bladders in your wing? Look round here at these 50 other divers not on courses but diving twinsets and ccr - do they have that?” while your buddies careful scrutinise their fins to avoid the painful look on your face.

I've taken classes from two tec instructors, and they both demanded double bladders. *shrug* Choose what suits your instructors and yourself the best.

Aqualung is kind of the same as Apeks, it is the parent company, but I would choose Apeks and mix brands to start with. Where you are that might not be best as Apeks is relatively expensive there.

Were I in Europeland, I'd prolly get Apeks, but not here in the States. It's pricey. Get something that's easily serviced in your area.

If money is an issue (and it should be because you’ll be needing a bigger house) then this sort of kit [harness, backplate, wing] can be bought second hand.

YAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS.

 

[vinsanity]

Before you buy anything do Intro To Tech. Part of the point of the training is to help with knowing what you need to buy.

I really liked an SDI/TDI instructor in Hawaii that I took the SDI Wreck Class with, but if I have to wait til I can take everything from him, it will take years of rare Hawaii trips. So I hoped to find someone local. Sounds like that needs to be my first step because lots of my questions are best discussed first about his expectations and how he runs his class.

You should prioritise the drysuit. That has to fit and is hard to borrow or rent.
...
Don’t get a thick neoprene suit, but do consider crushed neoprene if you really want to be going inside real wrecks, although that may be so far off you will be in the market for a second suit by then. Take local advice about what weight of undersuit to buy.

Yeah, definitely planned on getting that first so I was very proficient with it before ITT. Seaskin's very affordable custom fit is very appealing to me. I was thinking I may give them a try, but the Nova that everyone speaks of is a trilam. While wrecks are pretty far out, I don't really want them to be "replace my drysuit" far out. I don't mind adding gear. I hate buying it twice though. :-|

I assume your crushed neoprene recommendation is for durability around sharp things? When you say "crushed neoprene" are you specifically calling out DUI's $3200 crushed neopreme suit or will "compressed neoprene" be sufficient? I was hoping not to cough up high end DUI prices for something that is 1 item on a long list of gear investments

Get something you can have serviced there. Aqualung is kind of the same as Apeks, it is the parent company, but I would choose Apeks and mix brands to start with. Where you are that might not be best as Apeks is relatively expensive there.

My LDS is a serious Apex/AL house. I think they only sell Apex and AL regulators actually. I can get a XTX50 set for $560. Not as cheap as say a set of Hogs, but would be much easier to service. Down the road is a Scuba Pro shop. Hadn't even considered using my AL for the wife. :-D She does dive, but hasn't wanted to commit to a reg yet.

Before you do anything read Technical Diving : An Introduction by Mark Powell which you can get from Amazon.

LOL. It's actually already in the mail. :-D Slowly making it's way. 2 weeks for shipping. Ugh.

Thanks for all the great insight that I didn't respond to!!

ITT is a valid option, but depending on the OP's experience level, it's not necessarily the best class to take. If you, the OP, are still a n00b and just getting interested in Tec diving, then ITT could be fantastic for you. On the other hand, if you've got excellent buoyancy and experience blowing bags, then your AN/DP instructor could incorporate the how-to-dive-a-twinset into the course. I, for example, learned to dive doubles during my Tec40 class.

I'm not a noob, but I only have 75 dives under my belt. So I have plenty to learn. I like to think I have basic buoyancy & trim I have under control. I mean I routinely do open water safety stop, deploy DSMBs midwater, and don't every bump into ****. lol. But keeping my buoyancy while reeling in lines in my SDI Wreck class in a wash while keeping tension on the line... That was harder than it looked, so still more work to be done. I like the idea of doing my dry suit class with my future ITT instructor so he can evaluate where I am, but based on Ken's comments, my dry suit class might be a sh*t show and may not at all reflect my skills. lol

Were I in Europeland, I'd prolly get Apeks, but not here in the States. It's pricey. Get something that's easily serviced in your area.

I suspect AL, Apex, and ScubaPro are the big names that would be easiest. Smaller names I don't have much around.

 

[KenGordon]

I'm not a noob, but I only have 75 dives under my belt. So I have plenty to learn. I like to think I have basic buoyancy & trim I have under control. I mean I routinely do open water safety stop, deploy DSMBs midwater, and don't every bump into ****. lol. But keeping my buoyancy while reeling in lines in my SDI Wreck class in a wash while keeping tension on the line... That was harder than it looked, so still more work to be done. I like the idea of doing my dry suit class with my future ITT instructor so he can evaluate where I am, but based on Ken's comments, my dry suit class might be a sh*t show and may not at all reflect my skills. lol

it is ok for a class to be a **** show. You are there to learn. Don’t over do trying to ace a course. Meet the prerequisites but the course is not a test. The bloke I have done a load of training with has says stuff like “I want this to be the worst dive you ever have.” Meaning that the stress imposed on a course ought to be all the nasty stuff you need to be prepared to handle, but that your preventative planning and appropriate attitude means it should never happen. This isn’t macho hazing but adding enough extra issues to stretch comfort zones and that will depend on the student. Basically if you aren’t a bit stressed by a course you missed an opportunity to grow.

If you find ANDP easy you should find another instructor and keep doing it until it is hard.

 

[rjack321]

for servicing, you can either take a class, or if you are the handy type just buy the harlowe book from airspeedpress and learn by doing.

Vance is retired and all of those books are now out of print. You can still find them for exorbitant prices

 

[Centrals]

Oh, how does one get properly trained to service a regulator?

Respective course.

But if you have the inclination and confidence then DIY is another option. Apeks is one of the easier brand for DIY but you might have problem of getting the genuine service kits in USA.
I was NOT interested to service my only set of rec reg in the beginning but 4 -5 sets is different matter to my bank balance.

Good luck.

 

[ofg-1]

I have a contrary opinion on gear, buy used, have it serviced. Brass doesn't usually wear out. For regs, I use Dive Rites, and old Zeagle flatheads. Get them serviced before use, they will be fine.

 

[Cdncoldwater]

I really liked an SDI/TDI instructor in Hawaii that I took the SDI Wreck Class with, but if I have to wait til I can take everything from him, it will take years of rare Hawaii trips. So I hoped to find someone local. Sounds like that needs to be my first step because lots of my questions are best discussed first about his expectations and how he runs his class.


Yeah, definitely planned on getting that first so I was very proficient with it before ITT. Seaskin's very affordable custom fit is very appealing to me. I was thinking I may give them a try, but the Nova that everyone speaks of is a trilam. While wrecks are pretty far out, I don't really want them to be "replace my drysuit" far out. I don't mind adding gear. I hate buying it twice though. :-|

I assume your crushed neoprene recommendation is for durability around sharp things? When you say "crushed neoprene" are you specifically calling out DUI's $3200 crushed neopreme suit or will "compressed neoprene" be sufficient? I was hoping not to cough up high end DUI prices for something that is 1 item on a long list of gear investments


My LDS is a serious Apex/AL house. I think they only sell Apex and AL regulators actually. I can get a XTX50 set for $560. Not as cheap as say a set of Hogs, but would be much easier to service. Down the road is a Scuba Pro shop. Hadn't even considered using my AL for the wife. :-D She does dive, but hasn't wanted to commit to a reg yet.


LOL. It's actually already in the mail. :-D Slowly making it's way. 2 weeks for shipping. Ugh.

Thanks for all the great insight that I didn't respond to!!


I'm not a noob, but I only have 75 dives under my belt. So I have plenty to learn. I like to think I have basic buoyancy & trim I have under control. I mean I routinely do open water safety stop, deploy DSMBs midwater, and don't every bump into ****. lol. But keeping my buoyancy while reeling in lines in my SDI Wreck class in a wash while keeping tension on the line... That was harder than it looked, so still more work to be done. I like the idea of doing my dry suit class with my future ITT instructor so he can evaluate where I am, but based on Ken's comments, my dry suit class might be a sh*t show and may not at all reflect my skills. lol


I suspect AL, Apex, and ScubaPro are the big names that would be easiest. Smaller names I don't have much around.

If your LDS is Apeks/AL then I would recommend the DST (if you want/need a turret) or DS4 with the XTX50 2nds. I service them often at our LDS and they are simply designed, easy to work on and come with parts for life (at least in Canada). They are also very nice breathing regulators, I won't say the best because I haven't dove that many different sets or brands.

 

[Wibble]

With every wreck dive I do, I think... I really want to go inside! I'm trying to better understand the necessary financial investment to enter the tech diving world with the goal of being properly equipped and trained to penetrate wrecks probably no deeper than 150' in both cold and warm water. I definitely want to stand on the flight deck of the USS Oriskiny and do some Great Lakes wrecks.

• I was already shopping for a dry suit because I live in Oregon and I'm done with cold water wet suits.
  
• I already know my Aqualung Axium is not suitable for dual tanks, so a back plate and wing are in order.
  
• I read that you should have "high end" regulators, but no discussion about where that bar is. I have an Aqualung Core Supreme 1st & 2nd stage. Are these suitable at least for my backup set? Or should I plan on 2 new regulator sets?
• I have an Aqualung i200. Someone who I can't vouch for their credibility said that's a fine choice for back up, but should get a proper tech watch as a primary. Is that a fair assessment?
• I'm a little concerned about the tank situation since a lot of my dives are while traveling. Are there places that rent twin tanks or would I need to travel with them, which doesn't seam reasonable? Maybe I'm just not searching hard enough.

For instruction, I found an SDI/TDI instructor that I really like. So I will probably take Intro Tech, Advanced Nitrox, Deco Proceedurss, and Advanced Wreck from him. Obviously not all at once, but this is all something I plan on structuring over time.

Just trying to add it all up to see if I should abandon the plan and stick with rec and just dream about the inside. Thanks.

Seems a well thought through set of questions.

Computer: Shearwater Perdix; keep the other as a backup.

Regs: would recommend Apeks DS4s or DSTs as they're good value, very reliable and work well in the cold. It's a good idea to keep with the same for all, so stage(s) and backgas. Obviously it's a longhose in DIR format.


The main thing to recommend before moving into "technical" diving is to get your core skills sorted: buoyancy, finning and trim. All of us who've 'done' a course when our skills aren't quite up to par realise how much time is wasted in fighting yourself, not learning.

With a twinset/doubles you must be able to do valve shutdown drills; it's so so so much easier if you do this without changing depth or finning forwards as you're struggling to turn those knobs. It's the same for diving with a decompression stage cylinder: gently hanging around at 6m/20' is so much easier if you're not concentrating on holding the stop.

There are intro courses which sort out your basic twinset skills. Without doubt the best -- but hardest -- is GUE's Fundamentals. This course will teach you how to use a twinset and your core skills. It's a tough course, but is so beneficial for your future diving regardless if you follow GUE thereafter.


When you're sorted with backmount and diving beyond the recreational limits, it's pretty straightforward to change over to sidemount. The benefit here is you can rent two 'standard' tanks and clip both on at the same time. Instant stability, additional gas, redundancy, ease of shutdowns, and people love you on a boat ;-)

 

[Lorenzoid]

Is there a GUE community closer than Seattle? GUE's approach to diving doesn't appeal to everyone, but I like them because they are, well, a community. There is always someone to help you learn. You can often find someone to lend you gear at first. Every GUE diver has been down the same road as you, hitting all the same milestones. With GUE, you learn to dive the doubles-and-drysuit configuration, and learn GUE's standard procedures, until you're diving and thinking like a GUE tech diver, and THEN you take your first tech-level course.