Yellow hoses and Yellow regulator Question

[Wibble]

Or would a genuine OOG (out of gas) diver not simply grab whatever reg is in your mouth?

Panic = normal rules are off, your inner animal takes over.

This is different from "I'm low in gas, could you lend me some" which is a controlled donation, even if it's using a yellow octopus; the donor would give it to the LOG (low on gas) diver.

 

[CuzzA]

Pre dive briefing with buddy:

Me: "If you run out of gas give me the cut throat signal and I'll hand you the regulator from my mouth. But don't be an idiot and run out of gas."

Buddy: "If you run out of gas give me the cut throat signal and I'll hand you the regulator from my mouth. But don't be an idiot and run out of gas."

I have never been a part of an OOG incident. A good friend was two years ago. The guy yanked the reg from his mouth.

 

[Wibble]

I have never been a part of an OOG incident. A good friend was two years ago. The guy yanked the reg from his mouth.

Excellent, a learning point. Do you have any detail on what happened?

• Why they ran out of gas
• Was it completely OOG, or was it low?
• Depth, profile, etc.
• Kit
• Skills level
• How the donor handled it
• Why the OOG diver surprised them

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .

If someone other than my partner reached for the necklaced regulator, it would inevitably ricochet back to me. . . .

Maybe. I have seen a regulator that was secured by a zip-tie separate from its mouthpiece when it was grabbed. I can't recall whether the force with which it was grabbed broke the zip-tie or whether it slipped out of the zip-tie. Other possible outcomes are that the necklace (bungee) slips out of the zip-tie or simply breaks. Regardless, for this reason there are some who advocate not using a zip-tie and instead tying the necklace to the regulator with a double fisherman's knot--a type of semi-secure slip knot. The idea is that, if grabbed forcefully enough, the regulator will slip out of the necklace.

 

[Wibble]

Maybe. I have seen a regulator that was secured by a zip-tie separate from its mouthpiece when it was grabbed. I can't recall whether the force with which it was grabbed broke the zip-tie or whether it slipped out of the zip-tie. Other possible outcomes are that the necklace (bungee) slips out of the zip-tie or simply breaks. Regardless, for this reason there are some who advocate not using a zip-tie and instead tying the necklace to the regulator with a double fisherman's knot--a type of semi-secure slip knot. The idea is that, if grabbed forcefully enough, the regulator will slip out of the necklace.

Hopefully the donor will wake up at that moment and shove the longhose into their mouth.

 

[Glenn Williams]

My wife and I were diving the Grand Cayman Islands on the Kittywake. Our dive master came up beside my wife and started swimming with her real close. He ran out of air and took my wife’s yellow secondary. He was smooth. We finished our dive with safety stop and when we surfaced he explained he grabbed the wrong tank.

Bottom line it was a no issue.

As I stated earlier, in a no panic situation, non tech dive breathing air this situation worked out beautifully.

I believe training should be normalized to include your secondary yellow hose to give your buddy. Personally I don’t want anyone breathing my primary. Kinda yucky. If it is a last resort and fellow diver is in a complete panick I would try to donate my primary and me go for my secondary. That said let’s discuss how many “panicked” divers are going to allow you to put your primary in their mouth. The majority of the scenarios occurring show the panicked diver going up.

In St. Lucia we had an older lady who ran out of air in our group. She did not take direction well and strayed away from the group. We were about 70 feet down and she was about 50 feet away from us. After numerous times of trying to get her attention, we see her shoot up to the surface. We as a group surfaced and found out she was out of air. She had been huffing and ran short well ahead of the rest of us. The dive master explained to her about our Pre brief and that she was supposed to stay with the group. This was her first dive with us and she was not allowed to on the second dive.

My point is that a panicked diver is going to the surface unless he or she is restrained. In that case a yellow or black hose is not going to matter. A conscientious diver may be able to spot a panicked diver, however the reality of it is it happens so quick, unless your right next to them your more than likely going to be in a reactive vs proactive role.

My sole point is that a yellow secondary is where your non panicked fellow diver should be going for.

Brief this prior to diving. Learn the 6 P’s- Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Glenn

 

[David Novo]

I believe training should be normalized to include your secondary yellow hose to give your buddy. Personally I don’t want anyone breathing my primary. Kinda yucky. If it is a last resort and fellow diver is in a complete panick I would try to donate my primary and me go for my secondary.

So basically you believe that other divers should be made to dive in a configuration that is sub-optimal due to the "yucky effect"?

That said let’s discuss how many “panicked” divers are going to allow you to put your primary in their mouth. The majority of the scenarios occurring show the panicked diver going up.

Donating gas is not feeding a baby. You signal you are OOG and I give you my primary. Worst case scenario you grab my primary. How does an octopus help? An OOG diver lacking air is going to think "That is yucky"?

In the scenarios you mentioned, did the diver think "you want me to breath from your primary?! f*** that! I am out of here!" ?

 

[Glenn Williams]

So basically you believe that other divers should be made to dive in a configuration that is sub-optimal due to the "yucky effect"?



Donating gas is not feeding a baby. You signal you are OOG and I give you my primary. Worst case scenario you grab my primary. How does an octopus help? An OOG diver lacking air is going to think "That is yucky"?

In the scenarios you mentioned, did the diver think "you want me to breath from your primary?! f*** that! I am out of here!" ?

I would agree with you in what you say in a non panick situation. Panicked divers and I mean genuinely panicked are not going to give you the signal that they are out of air. They are going to where they know air is and that is the surface. As I said a non panicked diver will go through the motions and take any air source you give them or just come get your secondary.

Glenn

 

[David Novo]

I would agree with you in what you say in a non panick situation. Panicked divers and I mean genuinely panicked are not going to give you the signal that they are out of air. They are going to where they know air is and that is the surface. As I said a non panicked diver will go through the motions and take any air source you give them or just come get your secondary.

Glenn

A panicked diver will get my secondary or the one in my mouth releasing bubbles? If he or she goes to the surface my configuration does not matter.

A non-panicked diver will get what we agreed on the surface he or she should get or the one in my mouth, as the one under my chin won't move a lot.

Again, why is the secondary donate configuration better?

 

[Glenn Williams]

A panicked diver will get my secondary or the one in my mouth releasing bubbles? If he or she goes to the surface my configuration does not matter.

A non-panicked diver will get what we agreed on the surface he or she should get or the one in my mouth, as the one under my chin won't move a lot.

Again, why is the secondary donate configuration better?

Re read my earlier posts. This is where in my opinion normalized training needs to be taught. If a out of air diver is going for your in mouth primary which is probably black then why are the secondary hoses primarily yellow in color. I guarantee you it’s not for your convenience. Hence the reason I said there is either something missing in our training or people just don’t care or teach it anymore.

What are you going to do when you are wearing a full face mask? Rip it off and give it to your diver in distress? I think not.

I am not I repeat not being argumentative. What I’m trying to do is inform you guys who keep talking about a utopian dive incident where you provide your primary to a real panicked diver and the real situation is on a genuinely panicked diver is they are not playing the I’m out of air game. They want air and if they can’t get it they know where the air is and that is top side.

Don’t take my word for it. Go watch some panick diver videos and you’ll see exactly what I mean. A non panicked diver has time to show you the cut signal and has time to get either your primary or secondary.

Open your mind to there is additional training or a better way than what you were taught. The saying “we’ve always done it this way” can get you hurt or worse.

Glenn