New divers and "trust me" dives

[TSandM]

I have been exploring this site, and have come across multiple mentions of "trust me" dives. It seems to be a pejorative comment.

I am an AOW cert with 11 dives to date. I am acutely aware of my shortcomings. I dive in cold water and poor vis (Puget Sound), and at this point, I don't feel as though I can reliably manage dive planning, gas usage planning, and navigation by myself. Therefore, I have arranged to dive with much more experienced people, and have made it clear that I am a novice and need a lot of support. But I count on my buddy to know the site, to an extent to evaluate the conditions, and to do the navigation. I can manage my buoyancy and monitor my air according to pre-agreed parameters.

Is this a bad idea? In no way have I entirely abdicated responsibility, in that I am selecting buddies who are DMs or AIs or the equivalent, I listen to the dive plan and make sure it makes sense, agree on signals and limiting parameters. But if I had to be responsible for planning and navigation as well as everything else, I'd probably not dive.

What is one to do in such a situation, other than "trust me" dives?

 

[Diver0001]

What is one to do in such a situation, other than "trust me" dives?

Good question.

On the short term learning from more experienced buddies is a good idea. The key is what you said, to make sure that you're involved and that the knowledge transfer is happening. I would view this as an extension of training as long as you're not laying back and saying "ok boys, what are we going to do". The kind of trust me dives people object to are the ones where the diver in questoin is way out of his/her comfort zone and either doesn't even realize it or is relying on the other divers to keep them safe.

Having said that, you should also try to find some buddies at your own experience level and dive with them too. When you really have the lead, especially in terms of deciding "how" to dive a particular site then you'll learn some valuable lessons (provided you're keeping it safe that is) and it's good for your confidence.

R..

 

[Aqua Buoy]

Seems like it can be compared to dives done on vacation... you are still responsible for your self, actions and decisions, but the dive operation will judge the conditions, plan the logistics (equipment is sorted out, air is filled and loaded onto boats, first aid equipment and emergency plans are provided for and evaluated), the navigation is done by DMs and Instructors that know the local conditions.

Carefully choosing your buddies is like carefully choosing which dive operation to dive with... now as you say, the responsibility and decisions remain yours as a certified diver and the dive is your call. And while I feel the analogy here works it should not be used as an excuse not to learn or to remain dependent of same buddies (not saying that's what you're doing or anything like that, so don't get me wrong).

Dunno if I made any sense?!?

 

[dilligaf368]

Your living in a good place to get some Good divers to assist Your new Sport. There are clubs locally that are doing dives almost every weekends. Try slipping away and stop in the dive store in Woodinville to get on the "list". Go with the club as they are mostly Dive Masters or above. Most of the divers in the group have many dives in that area. No diver group will put You buddied up with someone that is new to diving together. I value the club and all the fun dives. Bill

 

[couta0938]

You've only done 11 dives mate. This is all still new to you. It's a learning process, the more diving you do, the more you'll learn and if you put in the effort to learn how to do the things you're not confident in doing, you'll pick it up with experience. Although you don't feel you can do the things you stated, why not have a go anyway but get your buddy to double-check everything and point out where you're going wrong.

Remember:
If i'm told how to do something, I will forget within a day.
If i'm shown how to do something, I'll forget within a week.
If I do something myself, i'll never forget.

Good Luck,
Andy

 

[Ron Brandt]

The guys that got me into diving were all DM's. Yes I took a beating as for being a "bad diver" but all is relivant.

My knowledge and skill was excellerated because of diving with expeinced divers to start with.

I am now an instructor and the people that got me into diving have all quit,some were at the level of instructor when they quit.

AOW is just the beginning,11 dives....waite until you hit 60 or 100 !!!!
Ron

 

[SDAnderson]

The "trust me" dives you hear discussed generally involve someone taking a diver beyond the limits of his training as opposed to what you're involved in which is working on mastering skills within the limits of your training. You're an OW diver, your limits are something like no deco-diving to a maximum of 60 or so feet and only in familiar areas with a buddy unless you are with a diver professional. A "trust me" dive might be exceeding your depth limits or penetrating (however briefly) a wreck or switching from warm clear waters to cold murky...

In a sense, every learning dive is a "trust me" dive - you just need to be careful that you are placing your trust in someone trustworthy and that you understand every aspect of the dive, with the intention of developing your skills. Others may plan your dive but you should be sitting in on that process and participating as fully as you can. Others may be in charge of navigating, but that doesn't mean that you can't work on navigating along side them, watching and learning. Etc.

The point of dissing trust me dives is to remind divers that they must be fully responsible for themselves and that they should dive cautiously and with great respect for the fact that it's all too easy to get hurt or killed down there, wherever down there is. It can be hard to know where your limits are but your question indicates to me that you understand the need to approach the edge of your personal envelope with your eyes open. Good on ya.

 

[theskull]

The type of "training" you are doing is most appropriate. To get more benefit out of it, stay as aware and tuned in as possible during the dive. You should remain mentally prepared for the dive leader to turn to you and signal <shrug> <you lead>, after which you could confidently take the lead, finish the dive, and end it near your entry point. Also remain mentally prepared for the dive leader, completing the briefing, to turn to you and ask you to lead this entire dive and be ready to do so.

Have fun,
theskull

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have been exploring this site, and have come across multiple mentions of "trust me" dives. It seems to be a pejorative comment.

I am an AOW cert with 11 dives to date. I am acutely aware of my shortcomings. I dive in cold water and poor vis (Puget Sound), and at this point, I don't feel as though I can reliably manage dive planning, gas usage planning, and navigation by myself. Therefore, I have arranged to dive with much more experienced people, and have made it clear that I am a novice and need a lot of support. But I count on my buddy to know the site, to an extent to evaluate the conditions, and to do the navigation. I can manage my buoyancy and monitor my air according to pre-agreed parameters.

Is this a bad idea? In no way have I entirely abdicated responsibility, in that I am selecting buddies who are DMs or AIs or the equivalent, I listen to the dive plan and make sure it makes sense, agree on signals and limiting parameters. But if I had to be responsible for planning and navigation as well as everything else, I'd probably not dive.

What is one to do in such a situation, other than "trust me" dives?

What you are doing is called "mentoring" ... and when properly done it's the real backbone of a good diver's education.

Choosing a mentor to dive with has many advantages ... and with the right mentors you can accelerate your path to becoming a self-sufficient diver, and even learn things you'll never learn in a training class.

Some things about responsible mentoring that differ from "trust me" dives include (1) recognizing the newer diver's limits, and planning your dive to stay within them, (2) using your dives to develop the knowledge and skills that will make the newer diver more self-sufficient, rather than simply relying on the more knowledgable dive buddy to make all the decisions.

In other words, a diver who chooses to dive with mentors will approach the dive as a learning opportunity, will ask questions, will attempt to perform skills like dive planning and navigation under the guidance of a more experienced diver. The diver who chooses a "trust me" dive will let their dive buddy do all that stuff, and won't put much (if any) effort into learning the skills themself.

So to answer your question ... continue to choose your dive buddies as you are doing, but approach each and every dive as an opportunity to learn more about dive planning, navigation, gas management, and the other skills that you recognize you need to develop. Try to plan a dive while your mentor watches, corrects, and comments on what you are doing. Try to navigate the dive ... or (what I do) have your mentor navigate out, and you try to navigate in. We all learn by practicing our skills.

The difference between a mentoring dive and a "trust me" dive is usually determined by your willingness to participate in the planning and execution of the dive, rather than simply following along. A good mentor will encourage you to do those things, and will guide you in developing your own skills, rather than doing everything for you. The former will help you learn to be a better diver, while the latter will simply turn you into a diver who depends on someone else to get you there and back safely.

You seem to be headed down the right path ... take advantage of these knowledgable dive buddies by having them guide you along as you work on your skills.

.... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DeputyDan]

Good post - Bob !