WARNING: Buying gear online, please be aware!!!

[dirthead]

In this case it's hard to say what's going on, but from appearances I'd say that alo100 is not familiar with how ebay works. I'm guessing that based on his rapid posting here of his problem before he even talked to the guy to see what was up.

I agree with you 100%. I think he got ebay and paypal involved in the dispute before even giving the seller a chance to make it right. Sounds to me like an honest mistake, shipping two items to the wrong buyers. If he would have just contacted the seller first and given him time to respond, this would all have geen taken care of a long time ago. Get ebay involved as a last resort.

 

[alo100]

Albert,

I emailed you 2 days ago and apparently you just replied today, I was at work all day and am now seeing that you replied. If you wish to contact me I have replied to every email you have sent, but you still have not provided your phone number, you have mine and called this evening but didn't leave yours. Albert, GIVE ME A CHANCE TO SEE YOUR EMAIL SO THAT I AN REPLY TO IT BEFORE POSTING TO THIS BOARD PLEASE.. As I stated in the email that I sent you, according to the Pay Pal dispute that you opened and that froze my pay pal account by decucting the transaction amount out of it, Pay Pal is awaiting action from YOU. The status specifically says "Waiting for Buyers Response." That Buyer would be you. I have offered the refund through Pay Pal and addressed that via the dispute you opened, so therefore when I open the dispute it does not give me an option to react as it states it is awaiting for you to take action. I am on hold with Pay Pal now via phone and will talk to them about getting the funds restored to the account so I can get you your refund. But please, give me your phone number and let me get home from work to address any emails you have sent me BEFORE posting to this BOARD, common sense. Okay, I just confirmed with them on the phone that THEY ARE WAITING FOR YOU to send the item back to me. Once I have it then they will verify with me that I do have it and refund your money to you. Sorry everyone for boring you with the details of this A & B transaction, but hopefully you can all learn from this experience and see how Pay Pal deals with these matters. Albert, I will contact you directly just as I have throughout this ordeal, please pay me the same courtesy. Thanks
MidwestScubaDiver

Yes, both of us have mentioned about refund (10 - 15 messages maybe?) but it didn't take place. There is a period given my Paypal prior to the buyer 10 days period before
Paypal would get involve to help out the settlement.

Before getting emotional, let me tell you why I have left you here because I have left messages at eBay, your mail, and your v-mail. Believe it or not this is for your sake.

Here is the reason:
The "buyer 10 days response" is over, the 10 days according to Paypal is for me to get the police report and it is done. The 10 days period is not given for the buyer to return the item. I have asked them clearly about this when I shall return the item, their advice is not to make personal deal. Paypal needs to verify our status.

I inform you in particular about your intention to refund is not known by Paypal (inpite of what being said in eBay) according to Paypal, again this is also important.
You can use the 3 way communication channel via email (you got everyone's email)
if you think this is a new story. Believe it or not, Paypal is going to count down on you for the response now, just as they gave me only 10 days. So this is for your sake. Paypal has taken the fund from you because it's still under investigation.

I cannot give out my phone number cause this is part how Paypal and other companies used to check who I am, so please excuse me of not giving it out. Please feel free to use the 3 way email communication as you have used it before if there is any information you need from me. Thanks.

 

[dirthead]

[Biting my bottom lip to not sound to harsh] I am not a ScubaBoard veteran, but is this really what the board is for? I think this whole deal has gotten blown way out of proportion. The guy shipped the wrong box. Getting paypal and ebay involved before giving him a chance to make it right was a big mistake. I know you thought you got scammed and are probably an ebay newbie, but try and learn something from this whole thing. It's pretty easy to recognize the obvious scam auctions on ebay. This guy's auctions don't fit that profile. I think he is making an effort to make it right, but with paypal and ebay involved, I wouldn't count on it getting straightened out in a timely manner. I think this could easily have been settled shortly after the mistake was recognized. I don't know who's emails and phone numbers aren't working, but if ScubaBoard is the only way you guys can communicate with each other, that's a big problem.

alo100 - Give the guy your phone number. Let him call you. The people that run Paypal and Ebay are screwed in the head. Just because they are telling you one thing, doesn't mean they are telling Midwestscubadiver the same thing. I have dealt with their resolution system, and it sucks. Give the guy a call, or let him call you and work it out. Doing it between the two of you is going to be a lot faster than letting Paypal work it out. I have bought and sold thousands of items on ebay, and have had quite a few that didn't work out just right. Whether it was my fault or the other person's fault, it is always better to work it out between the buyer and seller, not putting paypal or ebay in the middle.

I will agree that Midwestscubadiver made a mistake by sending you the wrong box. You have compounded the mistake by getting all these other agencies involved ( paypal, ebay, a police report?...***??) Your only means of communication seems to be ScubaBoard. There is something seriously wrong with that. If Midwestscubadiver wants to call you, and you won't give him your number, there is something wrong with that too.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think the ball is in your court (alo100). I don't think Midwestscubadiver intentionally tried to screw you. You got paypal involved, and he said they froze his account. I wouldn't be surprised if ebay doesn't also suspend his account there before this is all over. All for a shipping mistake that could have been settled in a few days between the two of you instead of a few weeks with everyone on here reading about it. If you won't take a step forward and try to work it out with him personally, I won't blame him for not trying real hard either.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Yes, both of us have mentioned about refund (10 - 15 messages maybe?) but it didn't take place. There is a period given my Paypal prior to the buyer 10 days period before
Paypal would get involve to help out the settlement.

Before getting emotional, let me tell you why I have left you here because I have left messages at eBay, your mail, and your v-mail. Believe it or not this is for your sake.

Here is the reason:
The "buyer 10 days response" is over, the 10 days according to Paypal is for me to get the police report and it is done. The 10 days period is not given for the buyer to return the item. I have asked them clearly about this when I shall return the item, their advice is not to make personal deal. Paypal needs to verify our status.

I inform you in particular about your intention to refund is not known by Paypal (inpite of what being said in eBay) according to Paypal, again this is also important.
You can use the 3 way communication channel via email (you got everyone's email)
if you think this is a new story. Believe it or not, Paypal is going to count down on you for the response now, just as they gave me only 10 days. So this is for your sake. Paypal has taken the fund from you because it's still under investigation.

I cannot give out my phone number cause this is part how Paypal and other companies used to check who I am, so please excuse me of not giving it out. Please feel free to use the 3 way email communication as you have used it before if there is any information you need from me. Thanks.

Jesus Man! Give the guy the chance to make it right! If your that worried about your phone number change it after you get this straightened out!! It costs nothing the first time!call the phone co. and tell them you are getting some annoying calls and they'll change it for free. Then from now on buy from your LDS and leave the internet shopping alone. By the way what's your ebay handle so I know not to deal with you.

 

[cummings66]

In the beginning I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but after he's laid out his story you can see how he messed up and is unwilling to cooperate in resolving the matter. Too bad ebay and paypal wouldn't come here to see the real story.

It's sad, but if he just did things the way it should have been done in the first place this wouldn't have even been posted here for us all to see and wonder about.

 

[gecko2gecko]

In the beginning I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but after he's laid out his story you can see how he messed up and is unwilling to cooperate in resolving the matter. Too bad ebay and paypal wouldn't come here to see the real story.

It's sad, but if he just did things the way it should have been done in the first place this wouldn't have even been posted here for us all to see and wonder about.

I think the error is on the part of the buyer...give the man a real chance to fix it. I find it absolutely ridiculous that it has become what it has. People make mistakes especially with the hassle of shipping multiple items. I have had to file a complaint with eBay and PayPal before but that was because the seller intentionally bilked me out of 150.00 or so. Even then, I tried to resolve it with him in the beginning. Perhaps I should have posted it on a public forum and still not gotten any further resolution... it's all garbage in my opinion. Probably best to just leave eBay alone for future scuba purchases.

 

[TheDivingBear]

Too bad ebay and paypal wouldn't come here to see the real story.

Who is to say they haven't, or won't. I've see many a company spy log into forums where complaints are made and arguments are taking place. It gives a real insight into who is trying to scam who.

I've been trying to stay neutrally bouyant in this case, but in the end, I think the buyer got mad (and a little antsey), did a little reading (of past mix-ups) and has now figured out that he can screw the seller.

Mix-ups do happen, and not just from E-Bay sellers. I ordered a set of router bits from Sears; they were simple and cheap since I was just starting out. I opened the box and saw these titatium top of the line bits. I contacted Sears and was told "Oops, our mistake" and was told to keep them. I've ordered a GPS directly from the manufacturer's website. The packing slip says model K (a middle of the road unit), but the box had a model H (a lower end unit). I contacted the distributor and was shipped another unit and given an RMA # to return the misshipped one (at their cost).

Mistakes happen, get over it and work with the each other to resolve it without screwing each other. Don't post all over this and other forums your woes and expect sympathy, especially when you (the buyer) refuse to work with the seller. Ebay and paypal "spies" do watch forums and you do not want your unwillingness to resolve the issue directly to come back and bite you in the end.

Peace,

Bear

 

[HowardE]

Wow... what a story...

I own 3 retail stores (brick & mortar established 1995) and an internet store (not selling on E-Bay) and I have had to deal with problems like this.

Do mistakes happen? YES

Does it sound like the seller screwed up? YES... Don't take your stuff somewhere else to be shipped... DO IT YOURSELF, that way you have nobody else to blame... It's not hard to put stuff in a box with bubble wrap, and take it to the post office, or UPS store (if you don't have a UPS account)

Did the buyer jump to conclusions? YES... It doesn't even seem like you gave the seller a chance before you were all over him like it was a SCAM. You've never had a shipper make mistakes? When I buy items for my stores, and we purchase 10 boxes of merchandise from a REPUTABLE VENDOR that we've done business with for 10 years, do you think it's POSSIBLE that their warehouse guys screw up??? Sometimes as much as $300 worth of mistakes on a $2000 order. Do they fix the problem - of course.

My advice for buyers who are cautious... USE A CREDIT CARD!

Credit Cards protect the Cardholder rather than the merchant... It's more 1 sided than paypal... Or use a CC to fund your paypal. The CC WILL protect the buyer OVER the seller almost EVERYTIME.

Have people taken advantage of my store, and filed false claims... Yes... That's the price of doing business on the internet.

If you're buying things on EBAY, there has been good advice in this thread... Check the seller's reputation FIRST.

If you have a probelm with an order from the internet... Don't just blab to a forum before you've even tried to contact the seller, and ruin a potentially good reputation.

 

[dirthead]

I hate to bring this thread back to life, but wanted to post an example of a scam auction on Ebay. If you don't have a lot of experience on ebay, and see something like this, don't bid on it. I will point out a few things to look for. This auction is only about an hour old and will probably be cancelled by ebay soon, so if the link does not work, just do a search for Ellsworth Truth and there will probably be another one listed soon.

This is an example of a scam auction on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ellsworth-Bikes...ryZ22689QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Things to look for:

Seller just opened the account with location of USA.
Item is located in another country (United Kingdom on this one)
User ID Kept private
Item price is about 1% of actual value
Shipping is FREE, but in the shipping section, several different shipping options to the same location are listed (mass select when setting up auction)
Entire auction description is copied from Ellsworth's website.
Check or money order payment only. Sometime's these auctions will ask for wire transfer and for preapproved bidders only.
Look at the seller's other items, multiple pages of expensive bikes, all for $33.

I haven't seen any like this in the Scuba section of ebay, but some could exist. The scam auctions for expensive bikes have been going on for years. If you know what to look for, they are pretty easy to recognize.

 

[alo100]

This is a feedback to all, mainly to inform all the online user beware of the procedure involved when using Paypal.

1. eBay and PayPal are in different states, local ( your own state ) small claim court cannot protect the buyer. PayPal admit that the protection to the customers is limited unless you're using PayPal credit card. They are familiar with the problems involved and yet this is part of their business model. So although PayPal is doing the service as a middle guy, they're only protecting the user with the min $200+ dollars when the buyer is having a $550+ transaction.

Anytime the buyer is trying to have a private way to deal with the seller, e.g. when there is a mail lost, or the item is not the right one, etc. PayPal would be hands off.
So, in a way, when some are suggesting that you should rely on the buyer to do the refund, be careful. The consequence can be good, or it can be bad. If you know the seller well maybe it's a good idea to min the hessle. Unfortunately it's my first deal with the seller.

Also, the police report has to be done within 10 days, and Paypal is counting Saterday and Sunday as workdays, most local policy report cannot be generated within 10 days for release provide that they have to store it at the database first before they can release, so check with your local police dept in case you're in need. For my case, it's sepecial, some friends in police dept. So IF you plan to start the procedure start the police report right the way, if you do not have enought time make sure you talk to PayPal MANAGER, they MAY be able to give you extention.

For my case, the seller is doing the refund 100% but the time it takes was long, PayPal was not in control when the time frame they made for the seller was over, it is up to the seller how fast he wants to react. Basically when the procedure cannot protect, it's back to the seller when he can return the money.

The fact is, PayPal would leave us time to settle it, but when there is no settlement, PayPal would ask both of us to follow the procedure to verify if the buyer get the item, police report etc. Again, if the seller walks away, PayPal would only pay for the min, they don't really have the resource to get you back the money right the way.

When we use PayPal (not Paypal credit card), our own credit card cannot help us too much anymore.

The seller can buy insurance at eBay, and it would show up saying that the seller is buy insurance for the item, but it is up to the seller.

Yes, your own credit card can protect you better.

There are 2 dept's within Paypal that has handled my case, the customer service, and the dispute dept. When the dispute dept said that the seller is not willing to give me back the refund and forget it (it takes more than a moth for the procedure) the customer service fianlly talked to me that the seller is doing the refund.


Unlike what some of the people here saying, the seller told me that although he preferred to work offline, it's up to me for filing the police report as suggested by PayPal, it's ok for him.

Unlike some of the users here saying that I am guessing, nop, I check with OTS and find out who brought the product from them and to make sure that the seller does have the item.

I noticed that the seller has improved his way to deal with postage and it's good for him!

I did get back my money.

If you use eBay, please consider to use your own credit card!!!