Prayer is useless?

[MikeFerrara]

What can be shown through scientific evidence is that many, if not all of the men who wrote the Bible never knew the primary source, Jesus Christ and weren't even born when he was alive. How can the Bible be the words of Jesus Christ if he didn't write any of it and the writers never heard him speak?

John and Peter never knew him? Besides, if God wants someone to write something I bet they'd write it no matter who they knew.

There are, however, logical contradictions with the notion of an omnipotent being. If God can do anything, can he create an object so large that he cannot move it?

The logical contradiction is in thinking that we could ever comprehend the nature of God beyond the understanding that he's given us. Just try explaining to an insect in your backyard why you placed the lawn furtiture where you did, where it all came from, how you got it done or the true nature of yourself.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

An interesting list:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

Not really. I have not the time to address each of his alleged "inconsistancies" but I will two:

God created the animals, etc. (Gen 1:24-29) before man.
God "formed" the various animals and brought them to Adam. He named them, etc. Gen 2:7, 19.

Chapter 2 is not supposed to be read as a subsequent to Chapter 1. It's a re-telling a re-phrasing, with a different emphasis. Much of the Bible repeats. Sometimes I myself wonder why but I rest assured that God knows why.

Chapt 2 is also referring to the Garden of Eden which is where Adam and Eve were to live; they were to tend the garden.

Which reminds me of the alleged "inconistancy" between Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; just because the Gospels do not mirror each other is no indication they contradict.

There are no inconsistancies. Only a human desire to invalidate it in order to remove accountability.

 

[MSilvia]

There are no inconsistancies. Only a human desire to invalidate it in order to remove accountability.

Thanks... I almost just snorted milk out my nose.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Accountability... After studying most of the world's religions, it seems to me that Christianity is the least accountable of all of them. With Christianity, a person can live like hell, and then pray the fire-insurance prayer, and presto! They are immediately absolved and forgiven, and guaranteed real estate in a heaven of gold streets and angels, even if they make this prayer after a lifetime of being a rapist or a murderer. As for Christians, all they have to do is ask forgiveness and the slate is magically wiped clean. Sorry, but that's just as bizarre as eternal damnation for a decision made during this life -- a slice of time that is little more than a hair's breadth in the context of eternity. If God is perfect, God's justice must also be perfect.

The concept of karma, rather than sin, makes infinitely more sense to me.

 

[MikeFerrara]

An interesting list:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

It's not a very interesting list beyond the fact that it's so suprising that some one could spend so much time in the Bible and not get a single point.

This is just one example but even with my limited knowledge of scripture I could go on and on and on.

God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

Ables offering was one of blood and what was required rather than something of his own work. Cain, in defiance, offered up the fruits of his own work. This is a major point consistant throughout the Bible. The bottom line being that our salvation required the sacrifice of Jesus. None of our own works are, or ever will be, sufficient.

Cain and Able were both given the same chance to please God just as you and I have the same chance to rely on the sacrifice of Jesus. If one of us chooses to rely on our own works we'll meet with the same disappointent as Cain. Nothing we can produce is good enough and nothing cain could produce was good enough. We are all treated the same. Where's the inconsistancy?

 

[mrobinson]

....Where's the inconsistancy?

In the interpretation from the teachers... sorry but that's the where real problems come down. It's isn't Christianity that is the problem, it's the misuse of it by humans.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Accountability... After studying most of the world's religions, it seems to me that Christianity is the least accountable of all of them. With Christianity, a person can live like hell, and then pray the fire-insurance prayer, and presto! They are immediately absolved and forgiven, and guaranteed real estate in a heaven of gold streets and angels, even if they make this prayer after a lifetime of being a rapist or a murderer. As for Christians, all they have to do is ask forgiveness and the slate is magically wiped clean. Sorry, but that's just as bizarre as eternal damnation for a decision made during this life -- a slice of time that is little more than a hair's breadth in the context of eternity. If God is perfect, God's justice must also be perfect.

Gods justice is perfect. The law was to be written to mens hearts. The murderer is no more guilty than the person who is angered or hates. The rapist or adulterer is no more guilty than those who lust. Those who "do good" have not done much more than those who don't do anything or "do bad" because our best is just not very good. It's possible to be forgiven because of Jesus payment. That said, once you know Christ, the Holly Spirit helps you to desire to live better though we still fail repeatedly. There's no magic about it. Nothing you can do is good enough yet the debt had to be paid and it was.

It's not as easy as "praying a fire insurance prayer". What would be easy is if all you had to do was refrain from phisically killing, raping, theft ect and to give a few bucks to your favorite charity once in a while to insure your salvation. that would be far easier and that seems to be what a lot of people want. In the Christian view, God is asking far more than that.

 

[MikeFerrara]

In the interpretation from the teachers... sorry but that's the where real problems come down. It's isn't Christianity that is the problem, it's the misuse of it by humans.

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Potapko]

Accountability... After studying most of the world's religions, it seems to me that Christianity is the least accountable of all of them. With Christianity, a person can live like hell, and then pray the fire-insurance prayer, and presto! They are immediately absolved and forgiven, .

This is an absolutely incorrect although widely accepted view of Biblical Christianity. God does not hear the flipantly offered "fire insurance" prayer of an unrepentent sinner!

Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,

The evidence of a true conversion is in a changed life. If a person's life doesn't change and the person doesn't begin living for God, there is no salvation.

I believe it was Constantine that tried this. Lived a wicked life, then had himself sprinkled with water on his deathbed thinking he would be forgiven.

imo he is probably in a very unpleasant place right now.

 

[mrobinson]

I'm not sure what you mean.

For the sake of arguement, if I did believe in the Bible and it didn't contradict itself then why do different preachers, let alone the different denominations claim different things from the Bible? (I hope that helps clarify.) :05: