scubakat
Senior Member
To get more specific you might need to define what it is that you are adding or taking away from... There is a wide variety of requirements between agencies and even instructors within agencies.
-K
Design your own OW class!
- Thread starter MikeFerrara
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To get more specific you might need to define what it is that you are adding or taking away from... There is a wide variety of requirements between agencies and even instructors within agencies.
-K
hey guys I applaud you for being willing to spend so much money to become and remain an active instructor and then charge nothing to the students to certify them. Hey I always am willing to hand out $600.00 a year for insurance, costs of maintaining my equipment,gas and milage from my vehicle. Then comes the costs associated with providing an adequate amount of skill sessions to make somebody reasonably comfortable in a pool,before throwing them into a sometimes very hostile open water environment. Not to mention the fact that these students need rental gear to use during the pool and open water sessions which I am sure could just come out of my own collection. Of course if the pool is in your backyard you can add another $500 bucks a year in facility liability insurance.
Listen,no instructor makes money teaching. NO LDS makes money through classes they sponsor. I get paid enough to offset the costs associated with teaching something I have done since age 6, and love to teach. It only provides money for offsetting costs of running classes.
The US is a very litigious society and people will not hesitate to sue anyone and anything.Not to mention free enterprise is rampant here as well. Hell the YMCA charges us $50 per student for 1 hour of pool time a night for 5 nights.multiply that by 6 students and that is $ 300.00 for 5 hours of pool time. we still only charge $99 for the OW class minus ocean rentals,books,and masks,fins,booties and snorkels.
figure out the math about where the other $49.00 has to be able to cover for LDS and Instructor expenses.
As far as CMAS goes, I do not see them teaching in this country at all. If they do in fact teach and certify in the US,and do not require liability policies of their instructors then they are very foolish and may be open for a big loss in case of a lawsuit.
Maybe you didn't read my post. I am never going to own an LDS, so I'm not going to try to get gear sales to subsidize a course. I said I'd be willing to teach at no expense to me other than my time. I'll pay for gas. Like I said, the club here at my school provides free gear rental and the school provides pool time. Our class money all goes to the LDS. If I taught, the students would apparently still have to pay for my Instructor Insurance, I'm not sure how that works. Maybe the school would also cover the instructor's insurance for the students.
I'm sorry you lose so much money teaching classes, but I already teach people how to do several things, including kayaking, skiing, and SRT, and I can confidently say that I would love to take a dozen Sundays out of each year and volunteer my time to teach scuba. No rent fees, no stock fees, no rental fees, no pool fees, no instructor fees. $600 a year for insurance? Over 20 people that's a $30 scuba class.
Was that supposed to be directed to me? I wasn't the one in your quoted message
OP
scubakat,
Forget agencies. The question was what would you change if you could. Here we can make up our own agency and standards. You can start from scratch if you like or you could start with the class that you had.
Forget agencies. The question was what would you change if you could. Here we can make up our own agency and standards. You can start from scratch if you like or you could start with the class that you had.
sheck33
Contributor
jonnythan once bubbled...
Was that supposed to be directed to me? I wasn't the one in your quoted message
no, i screwed up, sorry about that.;-0
sheck33
Contributor
No, they dont teach here, it is the big european all encompassing agency. The instructors in Holland are able to teach like they do because they dont have to deal with this ridiculous liability nonsense. If they had to then no it wouldnt be possible.
well Jonnythan, I do not own an LDS. Nor do I make any money on gear sales. If a college wants to subsidize a scuba course,by providing the rental gear and pool,then all the power to them. I know that Massachusetts Institute of Technology does have a scuba program and club. The college provides the pool,and rental gear and pays the Instructor,but the Instructor does not do it for free.
$30 a class? who is going to pick up the expenses? Even dive clubs that have resident in house instructors,incur expenses for scuba instruction.
Also who is going to pay for your instructor training?You cannot just pick up the paper and advertise that you will teach people to dive.You still need to pay for an RSTC recognized agency's ITC.
Are you willing to pay and swallow this expense($1500-2000)?
so how about the replacement of worn out gear?(happens at an alarming rate)
What other expenses are there than the $600/year for insurance figure? Pool is covered, gear is covered. BTW, where did you get that $600/year number?
Yes. Where does the $1500-$2000 number come from, anyway?
Club dues and non-class rental fees cover our gear replacement (edit: and we sell off old gear to club members and ebay).
OP
So...your going to subsidize training costs with income from other sources. Dive shops have been doing that since diving was invented and it's not working any more. What will you do when club members decide that their dues will be lower if they were not paying for someone elses training? You will need more than a $600 instructor insurance policy because that policy will not cover the club or the Dive Masters. If the club provides classes they will need insurance. My insurance is way more than 600/year. When I was with VB it was 2000 for the shop and I think 450 for an instructor and I forget how much for a DM. I have a different company now and it's a flat 2400/year for me and the shop. To get this insurance, however, you must be a IANTD instructor. If I wasn't able to get in with them the insurance rate hike this year would have put us under. Besides the cost to me none of my DM's were going to renew so I would have been high and dry and alone.
I think you should teach for free for a year and then come back and tell us how it went.
To teach PADI (just as an example) the IDC will run between 1000 and 1400. You will need about 450 in books. Last time I checked the IE costs like 400. depending on were you are there may be travel involved in the IDC and/or the IE. Thet will put you at 2500 or so. The PADI sponsored insurance did go up to 600 or 650. That gets you up to about 3000 and you haven't taught your first class yet. Oh. and I don't know what kind of job you have but I had to use a weeks vacation to do the IDC. Should we add the cost of that? And...are you going to teach any specialties? first aid? any DAN course? You need to have an O@ kit handy when teaching what are those? about 450?
I think you should teach for free for a year and then come back and tell us how it went.
To teach PADI (just as an example) the IDC will run between 1000 and 1400. You will need about 450 in books. Last time I checked the IE costs like 400. depending on were you are there may be travel involved in the IDC and/or the IE. Thet will put you at 2500 or so. The PADI sponsored insurance did go up to 600 or 650. That gets you up to about 3000 and you haven't taught your first class yet. Oh. and I don't know what kind of job you have but I had to use a weeks vacation to do the IDC. Should we add the cost of that? And...are you going to teach any specialties? first aid? any DAN course? You need to have an O@ kit handy when teaching what are those? about 450?
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