As a profesional- How do you expect to be treated?

[Liquid]

Maybe the patronizing tones were because of the language differences and translations.

They werent local, and my speaking skill is much better than the written one. Really, no seriousely, I do mean it, all you none belivers!!!!

Not to be taking a cheap shot, maybe in way I am, but if you are so qualified you should remember what your weight should be, or close enough anyway. Personally, someone whips out an instructor card on me and then ask for a weight check to see how much weight he will need, I believe I'd act a little patronizing or at least suspicious.

I'm one of those "exact weight freaks", aspecialy if it's been about a year since my last dive, Iv'e gained a couple of pounds, and use a new wetsuit with a set of gear I've never used before (which in fact, was the case). Besides, If I want to check it, even if I am the dumbest person around, why shoudn't I?

 

[Diver0001]

Liquid once bubbled...
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wich I belive should really be:
"no offence ment?"

He meant no offense, mate.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

Liquid once bubbled...


<snip>
Not True AT ALL!!!!!
In the eyes of the law, if during a dive an accident happen, and beside the DM there's a vocationing instructor, the instructor MIGHT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IN THE EYES OF THE LAW. I know of several cases. In one the instructor just dived from the same boat with someone that died. It came to court, and his Instuctor licese was taken, on grounds that he was the highest ranker around.

There are a couple of relevant things to say about this:

1) Liability, in most countries involves (a) a duty of care (b) gross negligence in failing to provide the duty of care and (c) damages directly resulting from the negligence.

In the case that an instructor (or anyone) present on a boat witnesses an incident in progress and fails to do the things he is trained to do in order to avoid and accident then he most certainly has a duty of care and has demonstrated negligence and can be sued for it.

His presence on the boat isn't enough, though. Under most legal systems he would have to witness an accident in progress and doing nothing to help.

2) The manner in which gross negligence and damages resulting from negligence are interpreted varies significantly from one country to another.

To illustrate. In America (some states), you can be found negligent for applying a best practice (giving O2 to a DCS victim) simply because the victim didn't give express permission. No actual damage to the victim is required and even if you do it right and the victim has been helped you can still be sued successfully for taking action when you "shouldn't have" (as I understand it)

In the Netherlands permission is implied unless the victim refuses treatment and giving O2 to a DCS victim who doesn't refuse can never be found negligent because you cannot (under Dutch law) prove gross negligence with the application of a best practice (assuming dosages etc are within parameters). Even assuming in some strange case that the applicatoin of O2 somehow made matters worse you'd still have a very difficult time suing for liability because you couldn't establish the negligence. Damages in the absence of negligence is just an accident under Dutch law and accidents can happen without anyone being guilty.

So here you have an example of the same behaviour (rescuer applies O2 without permission) which, under one legal system can be grounds for suing for liability and under another legal system wouldn't even make it to court.

So, getting to the point, It's easy to get all wound up about the "urban legends" and irrational sounding cases but usually these things are taken out of context and sound worse than they are.

R..

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have always heard instructors and DM's say they don't show their pro card when diving for fun. I have never agreed with this practice. A boat crew can't make decisions regarding management of the group without knowing the real qualifications of the individuals in the group. I guess I might show a cave or trimix card instead of an instructor card if it was more convenient or more relevant to the dive but I will show the crew a card that indicates my experience and ability. IMO, if you show an AOW card falsly leading the crew to believe that you need more supervision than you really need you are potentially diverting recourses from where they may be needed.

 

[Lead_carrier]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
but I will show the crew a card that indicates my experience and ability. IMO, if you show an AOW card falsly leading the crew to believe that you need more supervision than you really need you are potentially diverting recourses from where they may be needed.

I can understand what you are saying Mike, but IMHO, that is the same as someone showing an AOW card trying to show you need less supervision that you need.

Case in point, the shop I work at was putting a trip together and was requiring advanced skills, because of the type of ocean conditions we were likely to encounter. ie: currents, heavy seas, not the best vis. The DM in charge of the trip and shop owner were going to have the final decision if a divers skills came into question. Only about 4 people had advanced cards but the others were very experienced divers. We had one gentleman come in to sign up. He was an AOW diver. After talking to him about his experience he admitted he had only been diving in a "certification" situation. He had done 5 OW training dives, the next week he did his advanced class and did 4 dive in it. Stayed out of the water for a year and decided that a 130 ft. dive on a U-boat would be fun. He got rather offended when we tried steer him toward an easier dive to start with. He really got mad when we finally told him no, that we felt he needed experience to go with the card.

All of the boats that I have dived in the US have very little "supervision" once you leave the boat unless you pay a DM to dive with you.

Help someone in a tight situation, I'll do anything I can. Let the DM or Captain assign me a buddy because he needs watching and I happen to be an instructor, sure, now when will my credit card get the dive trip refunded since I'm working for you now.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Lead_carrier, I agree that a card doesn't garantee ability. I guess the point I was making is that I don't think it's a good idea to mislead the crew in any direction. I also refuse to be made a crew member by default because of a card I carry.