Outrage after inhospitality - no rooms for Cubans

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kim:
Disgusting. Sounds like you guys are going to make sure their 'hotel' stays pretty empty. Good job.


as i understand it, the issue is not racial, but rather political

the US forbids US companies from doing business with Cuba at the penalty of stiff fines

i think the hotel must have been warned by the US embassy in Norway that if it allowed an official Cuban delegation to stay there, it would be fined

so ... this official Cuban delegation was denied rooms not because they were Cubans but rather because they represent the CUban Government, with which US companies are not permitted to do business

this is all silly, btw... the US should drop this crap

but it's not the hotel's fault

the Cuban delegation had booked rooms at the hotel. then the Hilton Company bought it, and notified the Cubans they'd have to find alternative accomodations, due to the US law prohibiting US companies from doing business with Cuba:

The Cuban delegation, set to attend a travel fair in Oslo this month, planned to stay at the Scandic Edderkoppen Hotel in the city center, as they had on five previous visits.

However, the 140-hotel Scandic company was bought by Hilton in March, and the Cubans were informed in December that they would have to find another hotel due to the American boycott.


for some reason (probably for the shock value), the Cuban delegation did not find alternative rooms and instead came to the HIlton demanding to stay

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241821,00.html
 
H2Andy:
as i understand it, the issue is not racial, but rather political

the US forbids US companies from doing business with Cuba at the penalty of stiff fines

i think the hotel must have been warned by the US embassy in Norway that if it allowed an official Cuban delegation to stay there, it would be fined

so ... this official Cuban delegation was denied rooms not because they were Cubans but rather because they represented the CUban Government, with which US companies are not permitted to do business

this is all silly, btw... the US should drop this crap

but it's not the hotel's fault
Andy. It's not political for the Norwegians. Someone came to their country and broke their law. It's really that simple. Way earlier in the thread I asked what the reaction would be in the US if the situation was reversed and someone did the same thing in the States. No-one gave me an answer.

@reefraf. I'm English living in Japan so the whale hunting has nothing to do with me at all! :wink: For the rest I'm polite enough to keep my personal views to myself and not try to tell my hosts how they should live their lives.
 
Kim:
Andy. It's not political for the Norwegians. Someone came to their country and broke their law. It's really that simple. Way earlier in the thread I asked what the reaction would be in the US if the situation was reversed and someone did the same thing in the States. No-one gave me an answer.

well, it is political for the Norwegians. it's about a foreign company following the laws of its native country rather than the laws of its host country

which is why the US law is so ridiculous. it puts private companies in an untenable possition: they either break local laws or US laws. either way, they get in trouble.

my point is that it's not the hotel's fault. it's the US government's fault. if anyone needs to be boycotted, it's the US government.

also, it's not racial at all. it's not dislike for Cubans as an ethnic group that is driving this. it's all political.

to answer your question, i think there would be OUTRAGE if a Saudi Arabian hotel chain did not allow its hotels in the US to book Isralei goverment delegations because Saudi Arabia has a boycott against Israel.
 
Interesting that anyone in Europe could find room to consider this discrimination – let alone racist – given their behavior toward white South Africans during the apartheid era of the 70s and 80s. European governments and businesses thought nothing of not serving or allowing white South Africans in, but they would allow black South Africans to do business and enter – now that is racial discrimination. Last I heard Cuba was a nation, not a race, so they would have to claim ethnic or national discrimination if anything. Now under the EU treaty on discrimination they do forbid discrimination based on nationality – but they also have a section I’m not about to read right now that specifically differentiates between direct and indirect discrimination, and this sounds a lot like the indirect type.

Apparently the Norwegian government didn’t do a good job of understanding the implications of allowing an American firm to buy a chain of hotels in their country as they could have stopped the sale at any time – or they liked the idea of the Hilton/US money and hoped nothing like this would happen. Either way, there is plenty of blame to be laid at the feet of the Norwegian government and now they’re trying to pin it on someone else. The US government thinks nothing of denying a foreign company the right to buy a US company if they determine there will be a conflict of laws and we understand that any multinational company has to walk a fine line to be in compliance with both the laws where they are doing business and the laws where they are based or incorporated.

Another question this raises to me is why did Hilton buy out Scandic – or what was Scandic doing wrong that put them in a position to be bought out? Scandic must have been either in some financial trouble or figured they could make more money selling out than continuing to operate. Furthermore, what did Hilton Hotels discover about the Scandic brand and missed by Hilton Group that caused them to want to dump the Scandic brand in August, only 6 months after acquiring it? If Hilton hadn’t purchased Scandic would this even be an issue if Scandic had folded? Is this why the Norwegian government didn’t attempt to block the sale even if they knew there would be conflict of operating laws?

This whole thing smells like a publicity set up to me. Given the poor reporting I’ve seen so far I wonder if the Cuban representatives were actually not allowed to stay at the hotel or if they were not allowed to pay for the hotel with Cuban government money – and then kept out because they hadn’t paid up. I haven’t studied the legal changes made in 1999, but I know before then there was a big difference between being a “guest” and a “customer,” and the Cuban government knew very well how to play that game. For instance I could go to Cuba, but I couldn’t spend money on certain services there, so I would pay a Canadian firm to arrange a “host” for me in Cuba and my host would pay for all my services for me and I would spend no money in Cuba. Given that the Cuban tourism organizations are still doing that, they can’t claim ignorance of the way around the laws or the implications – and I can’t believe they didn’t know a US firm owned the hotel they were planning on staying at. The buyout happened in March, they did the same thing in Mexico last year (and got no publicity out of it), and they were reminded again before Christmas, yet the Cuban delegation shows up acting as if this is something new.
 
H2Andy:
also, it's not racial at all. it's not dislike for Cubans as an ethnic group that is driving this. it's all political.

to answer your question, i think there would be OUTRAGE if a Saudi Arabian hotel chain did not allow its hotels in the US to book Isralei goverment delegations because Saudi Arabia has a boycott against Israel.
Don’t make me agree with you on this one. :no :rofl3:

State or Commerce would probably prevent the sale of a US chain to a Saudi company unless a compromise on the laws was formalized in advance.
 
Actually Bill - I think a lot of what you just posted makes good sense. The fact remains though that stuff like this does nothing for the reputation of the US - which is probably exactly what the Cubans hoped for.

To say though that they did it all on purpose is probably a step too far though. The Cubans had been staying in the hotel for 5 years already - they didn't decide to go there because it was US owned and therefore an easy way to cause trouble. As far as I can see they already had the booking way before Hilton took the chain over. That they saw an opportunity to act when Hilton did take it over is entirely feasable - maybe even probable.
 
Kim:
To say though that they did it all on purpose is probably a step too far though. The Cubans had been staying in the hotel for 5 years already - they didn't decide to go there because it was US owned and therefore an easy way to cause trouble. As far as I can see they already had the booking way before Hilton took the chain over.

oh, don't underestimate the Cuban government

they are masters at guerilla warfare in the media against the US

they were notified in December that they needed to make other arrangements. i am sure they decided not to in order to create just this sort of black eye for the US

[edit: oops... hehe.. didn't see your new comment]
 
H2Andy:
oh, don't underestimate the Cuban government

they are masters at guerilla warfare in the media against the US

they were notified in December that they needed to make other arrangements. i am sure they decided not to in order to create just this sort of black eye for the US
I added another comment as you were typing! :wink:
 
Yes, I know I view the world a little different than most, but I find this thread really highlights the differences between the US and many countries today.

For years the US has had the most liberal and open safe-shore amnesty policy for Cubans escaping one of the most repressive regimes in the world that offers no human rights protections, and has hundreds of political prisoners and reporters that have just disappeared. Despite the hardships this policy along with the embargo has created on many US citizens, we’ve stuck with it because a majority in the country believe it the right thing to do – even if only symbolically to stand up for human rights. On the other hand, you have Europeans welcoming representatives of the Cuban government into their countries, extending hospitality to them as if they have done nothing wrong, and slamming the US for not playing nice with the pawns of a tyrannical dictator – and then the Europeans call the US the bad guys in human rights and discrimination while they ignore the human rights atrocities being committed by their honored guests.

Why doesn’t the Norwegian government ask their honored Cuban guests and friends to extend half the rights to their reporters they expect the US to extend to those denying so many any basic rights?
 
Bill51:
Why doesn’t the Norwegian government ask their honored Cuban guests and friends to extend half the rights to their reporters they expect the US to extend to those denying so many any basic rights?


ah yes...

why don't they indeed

still, that doesn't make the US law any less intrusive as to other countrie's sovereignity. the bottom line is, only private US companies will suffer, putting them at yet another competitive disadvantage
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom