My First Cave Experience

[Jason B]

Paula, I could be reading this wrong, but I'm not necessarily sure that breaking standards was Benthic's concern...

What is the issue old wise one?

As Paula said, she was cavern and had an instructor take her on a dive one level up.

Here goes a quote from my cave instructors website on guided dives.

Because your guide is a fully-qualified Cave Instructor, it may also be possible for you to make guided dives that are “one level up” from your current level of certification. This is because the circumstances of your guided dive are essentially the same as if you had enrolled and were taking part in the next level of training.

So again, where is the issue (other than the gas management one)?

 

[SparticleBrane]

Something about it just gives me the creeps.

 

[Benthic]

As others (and jeepchick herself) have said, there's nothing wrong with a guided dive by an instructor. However, that simple drop down the chimney is all it takes to cross the line from cavern to cave. She mentioned doing an essay on Exley's book, and I was simply trying to point out that the 'Training' point of accident analysis also includes exceeding one's current level of cave training.

Admittedly Jackson is fairly forgiving in this regard. But other (nearby) systems are not. Like I said, it's an easy trap to fall into. "I went out of the daylight zone just a bit in X system, so I should be able to also do it in Y system." That's not necessarily a true statement. I'm sure Nick covered this stuff, but you can't hear it too many times.

Brian

 

[Jason B]

She mentioned doing an essay on Exley's book, and I was simply trying to point out that the 'Training' point of accident analysis also includes exceeding one's current level of cave training.



I'm sure Nick covered this stuff, but you can't hear it too many times.

Understand, but from that view, none of us could have ever became cave trained as we had to break that aspect of accident analysis in order to get trained. What would be the difference in her doing cave dives as a cavern diver on a guided cave dive vs her first cave dive from an intro class?


I had been talking to Sparticle the other day and he seem to have an issue with a cavern diver being taken on a cave dive and I was wanting him to see that Nick was on the up and up with this dive. I know my last dive in my cavern class (different instructor) was a short cave dive to allow us to see just how easy it was to say "I'll be fine to go just a little bit further". My main cave diving buddy, his instructor did the same for him at the cavern level and I'm sure that's what Nick was doing.

 

[Benthic]

<snip>
What would be the difference in her doing cave dives as a cavern diver on a guided cave dive vs her first cave dive from an intro class?
<snip>

Nothing. I was simply saying, just because you did it w/an instructor doesn't mean you can do it on your own. Instructors (Nick, in this case) often have very carefully chosen locations where they do this type of thing. The reasons that Nick chose Jackson may not have been made clear to the students.

As I said before, Jackson would be fairly forgiving in this regard but other caves in the area (Hole or Twin) would not be.

Perhaps this is yet another case were I should have just minded my own business.

Brian

 

[SparticleBrane]

I also have a bad habit of sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.
*pulls out of conversation*

 

[Jason B]

Perhaps this is yet another case were I should have just minded my own business.

Brian

Not at all, same for you Sparticle - as I said, it was because of our discussion that I made my comment.

No harm guys - we are all in agreement I do believe.

Good diving to ya!

 

[SparticleBrane]

Good diving to ya!

Hey I went diving yesterday, so I'm good until at least...Thursday (when I get to go again!)
It's almost time for spring semester checkout dives, so that means the next 15-20 of my dives will be in Fantasy Lake.

 

[rjack321]

Hmmm, I didn't know there were provisions to take cavern students on cave dives for "experience" or intro students on full cave dives for that matter. Clearly immediately after finishing cavern or intro you don't have enough experience to go on a dive one level higher - but somehow you do with an instructor?? Essentially this is saying "trust me" dives are ok. Whoa!

After gaining more experience and actually enrolling in the next level its a different story IMO. You get lectures and dry runs of skills before being exposed to them in the cave.

I am Cave1 with GUE and I definately don't see instructors volunteering or even being convinced to take me on full cave dives - no way. In fact, if I were to persistently ask, I bet I would lose my Cave1 certification for having an unsafe attitude (I'm not asking either).

 

[rjack321]

I have to say I really admire Nick's teaching ability and the meshing of Exley's book into his class. And to hammer home the rules in a supportive way, congrads jeepchick!