The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

jbichsel:
Student divers are encouraged to purchase hard copies of the course materials from you along with other necessary items, like an RDP table or eRDP and a log book. ...

So here's the question; given the boldened statement above and the term "..are encouraged..", are student ro longer required to have an RDP, eRDP or Wheel?

Or will dive planning be online also?

".. along with other necessary items, like an RDP table or eRDP and a log book."

My reading of the statement and the way the course is going to work according to the workshop is that an RDP, logbook and student file will be mandatory.

A paper book (for those that like actually holding a book) will be encouraged. Of course students will have access to the online manual forever regardless.
 
At the PADI forum that I recently attended, we were told that the student would still have to buy what is essentially a crewpack without the manual in order to do the e-learning course. We were also told that the stores should price the e-learning course significantly higher than the traditional course on the basis that people will pay for technology when it provides convenience for them. The example given was the spur of the moment, internet savy person, who decides to take up scuba diving; finds the PADI shop site through a search engine and signs up with their credit card for e-learning. Advantage is that they don't have to drive to the LDS to get their book before they start. Disadvantage is that they still have to drive to the LDS to get the table, wheel or eRDP before they can finish the e-course (and while there presumably will buy equipment, discuss questions, get some tutoring if needed, maybe schedule their pool sessions, etc). In short, after hearing the presentation about e-learning I've come to the conclusion that it will appeal to a few folks with money to burn.
 
Eileentk:
We were also told that the stores should price the e-learning course significantly higher than the traditional course on the basis that people will pay for technology when it provides convenience for them.

Thanks for the insights... peeling away the newspeak let me take a shot at translating that into english... "what PADI wants is to lock in the impulse buyer by putting the point of sale as close to the impulse as possible. Realizing that there is a high risk that these potential that impulse buyers rarely follow through and take the class to completion, they recommend reaching as deeply into the impulse buyer's pocket as possible to maximize profit while the mark is still viable..." another possible interpretation could be... "... let's get the loss leader sold BEFORE they have an opportunity to actually come into the store and see what this hobby REALLY costs... sell the *dream* hard enough and the reality won't hit them for a while..."

So... does the internet buyer have any option to review the materials prior to this 'impulse purchase'? If the transaction is a reflexive purcahse and the buyer, after gaining access to material decides it's 'too hard' or "their busy schedules" aren't going to allow them to continue... or simply this isn't what they want after all... is there a mechanism for canceling the contract and getting a refund?

"PAYING FOR TECHNOLOGY" ... :rofl3: Wow... I'd point out that McDonalds and BurgerKing are conveniece products too... :rofl3: :rofl3:

Eileentk:
In short, after hearing the presentation about e-learning I've come to the conclusion that it will appeal to a few folks with money to burn.

Yep... I think you may be right...
 
I think that everyone is assuming that instructors and classroom time are going to be negated. I think it will shorten the time spent in the classroom, not do away with it.

Re: Independent instructors. Actually, I think that they have always frowned upon it because there is a tight collaboration between PADI and the IRRC's.

Honestly, until Phil started this thread and some of you chimed in, I didn't think there were any independent PADI instructors. I knew about NAUI and PDIC, but I thought PADI instructor couldn't work apart from an LDS. Sorta like SSI.

They (PADI & LDS's) still have to get rid of the current stock of hardback material. Dive tables cannot be adequately taught via e-learning alone.

I have never liked the "toe the line or die" mentality in any business operation. It's now just becoming more recognizable in the dive community.
 
Again, I must say that in my discussions with PADi via the phone regarding this eLearning, is the often repeated notion of 'increasing the number of recreational divers'.

Never has anyone at PADI that I have spoken with, addressed the subject of 'higher quality', 'better training'.

It seems everything is about more student divers which equates to more $$$ for PADI.

I can't help but see the trend over my 18 years of diving and be sceptical as to the motives and the resulting quality of education that is set by those who will preform to the absolute minimum.
 
Well... after spending some time thinking about tihis... and reading some other threads on SB relating to agency practices... I guess my gut reactions to a lot of what I'm reading fall into two main categories:

1: As a diver I keep reading in various publications about "safety", "best practices" and "rules" ... yet what I see practiced is what gives every appearance of agencies wishing to lower standards in pursuit of market share and money. There *seems* to be a real disconnect between the messages being sent out. Dear PADI, et. al. "I DIVE WITH THE PEOPLE YOU'RE PUTTING OUT"... I'd like to have some belief that these folks have more than just 'basic skills'... I'd like to have some belief that if something fails on MY rig that the guy I'm diving with has some clue how to help me out and wasn't a "90 minute wonder" in the cert process.

If agencies really want to be percieved as relevant rather than just *necessary*, I would recommend that they sync up their practices with what they claim they want divers to do. Don't TALK about safety and good practice... SHOW me safety and good practice in your own actions and decisions.

2: I'm getting a strong feeling that, like many other asepcts of life today, I'm simply viewed as an asset to be exploited in the most cost effective manner possible. I don't mind paying top tollar for top quality... but ya' know... I expect the transaction to be a two way street... I guess I'm saying I don't mind *too much* being somebody's cash cow... I just have a REAL problem with being herded.

Does PADI... or any other agency really give a damn about what the common diver thinks about things... or or is their input simply foundational research to allow agencies to 'tune' the 'education' to overcome objections? (... or, for that fact, does any agency really give a damn about what their instructors really think??) IS there a fundimental assumption that the agency knows best because... well... it's *the agency* and is the one making the rules?

Does ANYTHING we say or think matter in the least?
 
J.R.:
Does PADI... or any other agency really give a damn about what the common diver thinks about things... or or is their input simply foundational research to allow agencies to 'tune' the 'education' to overcome objections? (... or, for that fact, does any agency really give a damn about what their instructors really think??) IS there a fundimental assumption that the agency knows best because... well... it's *the agency* and is the one making the rules?

Does ANYTHING we say or think matter in the least?



Like it or not, if you are diving on a regular basis, drilling skills, reading and learning from good sources such as the amazing experience and information you can find on scubaboard, etc... then your are not the "common" diver. You are the excpetional diver.

People have voted, or at least Americans have made it clear how they want to purchase goods and services. See Walmart, Lowes, McDonalds, K-Mart, etc...

Luckily there are some people willing to be true teachers in a Walmart world. Many of those great instructors are on this board.
 
matts1w:
Luckily there are some people willing to be true teachers in a Walmart world. Many of those great instructors are on this board.

Yup... and thank goodness for em'...:cheers:
 
Hopefully I can provide a different perspective as someone that has been certified fairly recently and is still inexperienced. It seems most everyone on this thread has been around for awhile. If not then just ignore me that's what my wife does.:D

I think that PADI's OW material is particularly well suited for eLearning. The reason is that when I was training it seemed to me that they have it so streamlined that it's really just a framework. There's very little meat to go along with it. They give you exactly what you need to know (to get started diving) no more and no less. If they take this same material and move it into a multi-media format and maybe even provide some links to get more information from the Internet then, the beginning student could benefit a lot.

There is always going to be the student that will need the traditional classroom training. I don't think that will ever go away. I believe those are the type of people that will keep the traditional learning environment alive and well.

However, there are quite a few others that are more than capable of being given the material and learning it completely on their own. These are the people that will be able to take full advantage of eLearning.

As for the independent instructors out there who are at odds over this method of learning I would like to make one point. When I was looking to start OW training the first place I found was PADI's website. There was not one independent instructor listed when I searched for the areas I was in at the time. They only showed me the shops in my area. It seems to me that PADI never has provided much support for their independent instructors which really is a shame but, that's probably a topic for another thread.

Finally, as far as my own preference goes. I still want the classroom environment. I can study the material and learn it on my own but, I'm a people person. I like to socialize and meet new people. I'd like for them to take their current format and enhance it with a multi-media environment that is available to all OW students rather than make it a stand alone option.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully there is something useful in there.
 
amascuba:
E-Learning doesn't do justice to individuals like myself who learn from hands on and would rather listen and watch a teacher in person. I've done the E-learning thing in many different environments, but I do not learn as much from that application of teaching.

No one said it was for everyone. What I found interesting at this year's forum is that the ones who typically bash PADI had no objections, but the people who are usually the most enthusiastic PADI cheerleaders were the ones who had a problem.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom