PADI Bashers

[jbichsel]

I have to chime in here.

As Mike Ferrara stated, the PSTC is PADI, NAUI, IDC, YSCUBA, etc. Thye created the MINIMUM standards to achieve certification.

Unfortunately, if an instructor simply follows those MINIMUM standards, the result will most likely be a diver with sub-par skills (not sub-standard since the "standards" were met), with very little understanding of what diving is really about.

It is sad that some people take any kind of negative comment/statement about PADI or any other organization and call it "bashing".

I don't believe I bash PADI even though I believe that PADI and other agencies have some serious shortcomings in their training phylosophies.

I voice these concerns to PADI directly and I also discuss them with other dive professionals from PADI and other agencies.

Many have stated that it is the instructor that makes the diver and to a point I agree. Where we part company is when we reach the point that an agency may have created a training program that places so many limits and restrictions on an instructor as to stifle his/her ability to create a safe, well trained diver.

Though i have never met Walter or Mike Ferrara, I have learned a great deal from them that has made me a better PADI instructor. I admit without shame that I have taken a great deal of what they and others have posted and added it to my own training cirriculum in order to meet my own desires of the student divers I want to put in the water.

In my estimation, every agencies MINIMUM standards are too low. The minimums allow for the certification of divers with sud-par skills and not enough knowledge of the effects of diving on our bodies and how to deal with those.

Again, this is IF an instructor adheres only to the minimums and doesn't put enough into it.

My standard is to train someone well enough to dive with my daughters or wife.

 

[matts1w]

It is sad that some people take any kind of negative comment/statement about PADI or any other organization and call it "bashing".

I don't believe I bash PADI even though I believe that PADI and other agencies have some serious shortcomings in their training phylosophies.

I dont think that equates to bashing either. But one cannot deny there is a very loud group of people here that bring NOTHING, and I mean ZERO, to scubaboard but their disdain to for the agencies.

Seriously, do the few individuals who steer every converstaion as to how much an agency sucks no matter what the issue count as bashing? Just curious. Some if these people have over 10,000 posts, and most of them are the same posts over and over and over. That is not an exaggeration.

I have said this before: it is a shame that is all they want to bring to such a wonderful resource as Scubaboard as they have so much more to offer divers than this.

 

[Thalassamania]

I’ve run the entire gambit of instructors from the great to some would say legendary, instructors to the newly pressed PADI Instructors. Some were good some were not, agency be damned.

Dave

Exactly, you'll get no argument from me there. That has nothing to do with the direction that most of the agencies seem to be flowing in.

 

[shellim123]

It has been said before.....who cares who you go through as long as you have a good, thourough instructor and conscious dive buddies that will help you with any fears, or issues, you might have underwater!

Dive Dive Dive
And continue your education! No matter what agency you go through!
Practice makes perfect
Just my .02

 

[Cacia]

Most of my problem with PADI comes from how I have seen them treat very excellent, dedicated and loyal instructors. My perception is that it is a one way relationship, and I don't respect that.

I happen to think diving new enthusiastic divers doesn't require the in-depth study that many decide to seek later. And it is more difficult and requires far more responsibility to train new divers in larger numbers than to teach a few highly motivated divers seeking a more in-depth knowledge. I think diving is safe enough to justify course work at the PADI level as an introduction and a way to enjoy the ocean environment.

I think PADI dupes their instructors if they can. (if you are aware and have your eyes open, PADI has its place)

JB always tells me regarding kool-aid, ANY flavor, "taste it and swish it around, but never swallow the kool-aide" ..which means question everything and advocate for yourself.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

I dont think that equates to bashing either. But one cannot deny there is a very loud group of people here that bring NOTHING, and I mean ZERO, to scubaboard but their disdain to for the agencies.

Seriously, do the few individuals who steer every converstaion as to how much an agency sucks no matter what the issue count as bashing? Just curious. Some if these people have over 10,000 posts, and most of them are the same posts over and over and over. That is not an exaggeration.

I have said this before: it is a shame that is all they want to bring to such a wonderful resource as Scubaboard as they have so much more to offer divers than this.

I have to agree with that, when we have a question about standards, it quite often discusses hwo standards are not as high as they should be with a particular agency, but when it crosses a line, is when it is brought up with out real purpose regarding the OP. There have been numerous posts since i've been here, where soemone has a problem of some kind, and it is immediately blamed on their training agency by another poster. This is irrelevant bashing, as that post has no idea of who the OP's instructor was and what quality of education they received.

 

[rawls]

IMHO...I simply suggest that you keep training and dive as frequently as you can. I am constantly taking courses. When I finish one, I start on another. I study very hard for these courses and I read diving literature all the time...physics, physiology, deco theory...When I am confused, I just keep reading. Diving is a wonderful activity. I am learning something new all of the time. When I come to the point that I feel I have learned enough then it is time to get out of diving. What kind of diver you become is ultimately up to you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You paint all training agencies with the same brush? You assume too much. Does your envisagement make any consideration for a competent, caring instructor? Aparently not.
I’ll spare all the tear stained monologue of my training experience but suffice it to say, I’ve had some very good training. I’ve run the entire gambit of instructors from the great to some would say legendary, instructors to the newly pressed PADI Instructors. Some were good some were not, agency be damned.

Dave

Of course but lets not give the agency credit for those caring instructors who go above and beyond on their own initiative because the agency is every bit as accepting of the other kind. The agency just isn't asking very much from the instructor or the student and they don't necessarily appreciate if when it's delivered.

 

[Teamcasa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamcasa
You paint all training agencies with the same brush? You assume too much. Does your envisagement make any consideration for a competent, caring instructor? Aparently not.
I’ll spare all the tear stained monologue of my training experience but suffice it to say, I’ve had some very good training. I’ve run the entire gambit of instructors from the great to some would say legendary, instructors to the newly pressed PADI Instructors. Some were good some were not, agency be damned.

Dave

Of course but lets not give the agency credit for those caring instructors who go above and beyond on their own initiative because the agency is every bit as accepting of the other kind. The agency just isn't asking very much from the instructor or the student and they don't necessarily appreciate if when it's delivered.

I do when its warranted. However, most people do not usually give credit to the University that trained the Doctor that just saved your life in the emergency room.

Dave

 

[Garrobo]

In regard to Jim Lap's remark about tables and dumbing down: I understand your thinking about the tables since you make a living teaching them, if you really are one of the 200,000 scuba instructors certified to teach, but I doubt that I would need them since my diving will always consist of no more than two dives in any one day, mostly less than 80 feet, using an AL80. If a person such as myself, considering the type of diving I will be doing, can't figure out that after about an hour and their air is running out it's time to come up and do a three minute at 5 metres then tables won't help them out that much. Also, I believe in and am willing to trust modern technology and the computers to a certain extent. And to anzac65: Why do you want to know more about me than I have already posted? No, I'm not a Congressman or a scuba instructor. Although it's none of your business, I will tell you that I worked all my life as a union construction electrician in Ohio.