Spearfishing with a rebreather

[ReefGuy]

Yeah, it's very effective protecting a fishery from selected and limited harvesting that happens while spearing - after all, if spearfishermen killed all the fish, what would the longliners do for a living?

You show no true understanding of how fishery problems develop with gear that makes things too efficient and show a "can't see the forest for the trees" mindset about both this and the safety issue.

 

[PacketSniffer]

<snip>You show no true understanding of how fishery problems develop with gear that makes things too efficient and show a "can't see the forest for the trees" mindset about both this and the safety issue. <snip>

Sorry Bill. You show no true understanding of how many rebreather divers there are out in the world. Besides that point, I think you're greatly exagerrating the "efficiency".

Secondly, if you had a crystal ball that let you look at both scenarios you might be able to see the divers today happily loading up their OC equipment to go spearfishing who otherwise would be in a box now due to a rebreather mishap. You might also see the Feds and the state crawling all over the fishery, the sport and rebreathers in general due to too many mishaps. Any of you who try to equate the level of risk of heavy task loading (like spearfishing) on OC to heavy task loading on closed circuit don't know the animal at all. Ignorance is bliss but also dangerous at times.

Bill, you are so out in left field with these statements. So, you think that everyone who dives a rebreather WILL bite the dust. Hmm, interesting. Tell that to Tom Mount, Jeff Bozanic, Gregg Stanton, or any other seasoned rebreather diver that has been diving rebreathers for more than 20 years like these guys.

I know task loading on a rebreather. I also know you are wrong.

Just because you can't hack it on a rebreather doesn't mean you have to kill it for the rest of us.

Thanks Killjoy.


Biminibill[/QUOTE]

 

[Biminibill]

Reefguy, I'm no fan of longlines but trying to start a gear fight on this thread does nothing but cloud the issue. Have you ever contemplated the expression "Two wrongs don't make a right"?

You know, PacketSniffer I shouldn't even dignify your post with a lenthy response but since the moderators won't let me answer you with a fitting one word adjective that would well describe your post I will make a couple of points.

I do know the efficiency of the rebreather, the stealth capability and as well the task loading and stand by my original assertions. I have worked with accomplished and veteran RB users and have used them myself in shark research.

Tom Mount is the top of the art and the science and would probably handle the task loading of spearfishing and many other tasks very well if he needed to but he doesn't. Also, there are very few Tom Mounts. The safety aspect of the no spearfishing with rebreathers law wasn't targeting the Tom Mounts of the world. Have you asked Tom his opinion on this issue?

As far as opinions maybe you should have asked the opinion of Zac Jones when you still could. I suspect it would have matched yours.

Also, read this article and consider the numbers: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2006-11-23/news/rebreathe-deep-the-gathering-doom/

and this editorial about that article that demonstrates one of the main reasons rebreathers are banned from harvest - too much interest in going fishing and not enough attention to detail: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2006-11-30/news/letters-for-november-30-december-6-2006/

As for "hacking it" anyone using closed circuit who makes a statement like that needs to switch back to OC before his macho-bravado gets him in trouble.

Write whatever you want. As I said before, the law is on the books, it'll stay there and I'm content with that. This is the last I'll post on this since there's nothing to be gained going any further. You'll keep your opinion and I'll keep mine no matter what else is said.

Biminibill

 

[PacketSniffer]

<snip>

I have worked with accomplished and veteran RB users and have used them myself in shark research.

Out of curiosity, which rebreather was that?

Tom Mount is the top of the art and the science and would probably handle the task loading of spearfishing and many other tasks very well if he needed to but he doesn't.

Oh, so one specific instructor can handle it but no one else is capable?

As far as opinions maybe you should have asked the opinion of Zac Jones when you still could. I suspect it would have matched yours.

Sorry to disappoint you Bill, but I don't spear fish. At any rate, that's one person on a RB. I agree that a person's life is not to waste, but where are the hundreds or even tens of rebreather diver deaths due to spear fishing?

and this editorial about that article that demonstrates one of the main reasons rebreathers are banned from harvest - too much interest in going fishing and not enough attention to detail: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2006-11-30/news/letters-for-november-30-december-6-2006/

So your answer is to ban rebreathers from spear fishing????? What's next? Are you going to ban rebreathers from wreck and cave diving too? lol

This is where the rub is at Bill; you trying to protect me and implementing laws to do so.

As for "hacking it" anyone using closed circuit who makes a statement like that needs to switch back to OC before his macho-bravado gets him in trouble.

Your psycho analysis is inaccurate. I'm a pretty humble guy and pre-breathe my OC bailout *before* embarking on a dive....every dive. Thank you. However, I get fairly ticked when I hear about people trying to protect me with silly laws.

Write whatever you want. As I said before, the law is on the books, it'll stay there and I'm content with that. This is the last I'll post on this since there's nothing to be gained going any further. You'll keep your opinion and I'll keep mine no matter what else is said.

Well, don't forget to pat yourself on the back.

Biminibill

 

[Jax Diver]

At some point, as technology advances, everyone needs to ask themselves: Where do we draw the line in regards to efficency and effectivness of gear types used to harvest fish. Spearfishermen, myself included, were some of the first to voice concern over wire fish traps, longlines and certain netting operations as being overly efficient and destructive. It really does not make sense for spearfishermen to critize certain overly efficient gear types in one sector of the fishery, but promote their use in our sector (rebreathers in spearfishing).
If the fishery is managed properly there really is not need to use any of this controversial gear. Unfortunately, many of our fish are not regulated properly and people are constantly looking for that little bit of an edge to harvest more.
I think that by stepping in at the very beginning, showing a concern not only for the resource, but the future of spearfishing by pushing for a ban on the use of rebreathers for spearfishing was viewed by many managers as being proactive.

 

[Biminibill]

Tell you what, PacketSniffer, you're of the mindset that is a waste of time to try to explain anything to. Your mind is closed and you'll do what you wish, no matter what so I will leave you with the adage that Billy Deans lives by, "Sheer stupidity is self-correcting". Have fun.

 

[100days-a-year]

2 lies to correct.
1.Gear restrictions on traps,nets and longlines were fought to reduce bycatch.:no
2.You promised to go away Bill,how about doing the honorable thing.

 

[Jax Diver]

If you go back and look over the rational behind prohibiting many gear types (including fish traps, bottom long lines and certain netting operations) you will find there was much concern over the effeciency and effectiveness of these gears. It was not just a bycatch issue.

 

[100days-a-year]

Funny,I never heard it mentioned in a scoping meeting in the last 25 years for any of the fisheries management agencies for NMFS,SAFMC,the S.Carolina,Georgia or Florida DNR.Since I attend most of the meetings locally and travel quite a bit to protect my sport I think I'd have heard it.The lobbyists for recreational fishing and spearfishing rarely,if ever mention it either.In fact many environmental groups consider more efficient means desirable as it lessens the overall impact on the eco-system.The bycatch alone from those now banned or unused gears was probly equal to or greater than the actual catch.
Some good reading can be had by accessing the previous minutes of the NMFS meetings regarding gear types or from the SEDAR reports.All easily googled up.They have in some cases historical catch accounts from survey and commercial trip tickets going back 30 years.
A surprise to me was seeing hook and line gear was responsible for more jewfish catch than the evil powerhead armed spearfishermen.

 

[PacketSniffer]

Tell you what, PacketSniffer, you're of the mindset that is a waste of time to try to explain anything to. Your mind is closed and you'll do what you wish, no matter what so I will leave you with the adage that Billy Deans lives by, "Sheer stupidity is self-correcting". Have fun.

Sure Bill. Whatever.

Your arguments are:

1) Rebreathers are dangerous for spearfishing and therefore should be banned.

2) Rebreathers are so efficient that they are harvesting too much fish so they should be banned.

I think both of those are a crock-o-crap.

Bill, it's dangerous for someone to exceed MOD on Nitrox. When are you going to ban OC gear because of that potential?

I'll say it again. Have none of you ever heard of a catch limit? Why ban the "efficient" tool when all you needed to do was institute a catch limit like in other areas? This way, everyone wins instead of your heroic, selfish act.

I can't be all that stupid Bill. I had a nice handful of CCR dives in the Gulf the last few days and I am still alive. Hmmm...