GLynch
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Does anybody which book is more true Shadow Divers Or Shadow Divers Exposed?
Any comments??
Any comments??
The truth of U-869
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here is a link to a review on amazon.com.
Chris
Chris
I read both books and had an e-mail conversation regarding this with John C.,,,,I feel comfortable with Shadow Divers in general, but we all know how stories to get glamorized and embellished at times.
OP--read my second signature line...
OP--read my second signature line...
tonka97
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I go with diving legend Gary Gentile, author of 30 books. Shadow Divers Exposed is very good.
Gary Gentile Productions
Shadow Divers is pretty good fiction though, given that Robert Kurson's only previous offering was "The Three Stooges Cookbook".
Amazon.com: The Official Three Stooges Cookbook: Books: Robert Kurson
Gary is a great fellow,,,he has written some detailed Great Lakes wreck diving guilds, but his science fiction books I have yet to read.
aue-mike
Contributor
Here we go again...
In any case, I am sure there will be even more debate following the release of Return to Hitler's Lost Sub.
Should be interesting
Cheers,
Mike
In any case, I am sure there will be even more debate following the release of Return to Hitler's Lost Sub.
Should be interesting
Cheers,
Mike
adurso
Contributor
I go with JC, who has no need to self publish
I have read both books. I respect Mr Gentile's diving experiences, but I have no respect for Shadow Divers Exposed. I will list a few, but nowhere near all of the examples that cause me to feel this way.
#1 Mr. Gentile states in the beginning that without a doubt an American vessel depth charged and sunk the U-352. His proof is mere speculation. To give him credit, I don't think anyone will ever know for certain whether it was depth charged or whether it was a torpedo. It could be one or the other. I have read several things Chatterton has said about it and I can't recall him saying it was definitively the 869's own torpedo. He has said he felt the evidence lead to his speculation. Mr Gentile sites proof and he has no definitive proof at all.
#2 He states that John Moyer (I believe it was Moyer) videotaped the resuscitation efforts of Chris Rouse. He states that in the video...the camera was concealed...Chatterton didn't say one word to the resue diver once he boarded the boat. I have dived with Chatterton on several occations and if anyone else has they will know that John is constitutionally incapable of not talking John loves to talk. Knowing this first hand it is very hard to believe John said nothing with a rescue diver standing right next to him. Thing is, regarding John loving to talk, it is very seldomly anything about himself or his accomplishments. Even when he does mention something he has done he always downplays it.
#3 During his writing about the sinking of the U-869 Mr. Gentile talks about his own research into the discovery and has the balls to say he had figured out it was the U-869.
#4 I had alot of trouble in the part of the book where he talks about discrepancies in many of the things related to Chatterton's and Kohler's accomplishments as being total fabrications. His charges seemed plausible since he sited many people to back up his claim although I can't recall alot of quotes from these people.
Here's the kicker related to this. It's the part about his "interview techniques" toward the end of the book...before the appendicies. Then I found relief when I read about his way of getting the "truth" out of people who were diving with John and Richie. Those who remembered it another way other than his. Mr Gentile remembers the actual truth when many times he wasn't even present on these dives.
#5 Mr. Gentile includes the term "Deep Sea Defectives" regarding the History Channel episodes. I must admit I think it is pretty funny, but also pretty adolescent by calling people names.
#6 If he mentioned "my faithful readers" one more time I think I would have puked
I don't believe for a minute that the author did not take some creative license with Shadow Divers, but what book hasn't. I doubt there is one single non-fiction book ever written that hasn't taken some creative licensure in its writing. It doesn't make them fiction as Mr. Gentile states Shadow Divers is. If Shadow Divers is a work of fiction, I believe Shadow Divers Exposed is more so.
#1 Mr. Gentile states in the beginning that without a doubt an American vessel depth charged and sunk the U-352. His proof is mere speculation. To give him credit, I don't think anyone will ever know for certain whether it was depth charged or whether it was a torpedo. It could be one or the other. I have read several things Chatterton has said about it and I can't recall him saying it was definitively the 869's own torpedo. He has said he felt the evidence lead to his speculation. Mr Gentile sites proof and he has no definitive proof at all.
#2 He states that John Moyer (I believe it was Moyer) videotaped the resuscitation efforts of Chris Rouse. He states that in the video...the camera was concealed...Chatterton didn't say one word to the resue diver once he boarded the boat. I have dived with Chatterton on several occations and if anyone else has they will know that John is constitutionally incapable of not talking
John loves to talk. Knowing this first hand it is very hard to believe John said nothing with a rescue diver standing right next to him. Thing is, regarding John loving to talk, it is very seldomly anything about himself or his accomplishments. Even when he does mention something he has done he always downplays it.#3 During his writing about the sinking of the U-869 Mr. Gentile talks about his own research into the discovery and has the balls to say he had figured out it was the U-869.
#4 I had alot of trouble in the part of the book where he talks about discrepancies in many of the things related to Chatterton's and Kohler's accomplishments as being total fabrications. His charges seemed plausible since he sited many people to back up his claim although I can't recall alot of quotes from these people.
Here's the kicker related to this. It's the part about his "interview techniques" toward the end of the book...before the appendicies. Then I found relief when I read about his way of getting the "truth" out of people who were diving with John and Richie. Those who remembered it another way other than his. Mr Gentile remembers the actual truth when many times he wasn't even present on these dives.
#5 Mr. Gentile includes the term "Deep Sea Defectives" regarding the History Channel episodes. I must admit I think it is pretty funny, but also pretty adolescent by calling people names.
#6 If he mentioned "my faithful readers" one more time I think I would have puked
I don't believe for a minute that the author did not take some creative license with Shadow Divers, but what book hasn't. I doubt there is one single non-fiction book ever written that hasn't taken some creative licensure in its writing. It doesn't make them fiction as Mr. Gentile states Shadow Divers is. If Shadow Divers is a work of fiction, I believe Shadow Divers Exposed is more so.
I have read both books. I respect Mr Gentile's diving experiences, but I have no respect for Shadow Divers Exposed. I will list a few, but nowhere near all of the examples that cause me to feel this way.
#1 Mr. Gentile states in the beginning that without a doubt an American vessel depth charged and sunk the U-352. His proof is mere speculation. To give him credit, I don't think anyone will ever know for certain whether it was depth charged or whether it was a torpedo. It could be one or the other. I have read several things Chatterton has said about it and I can't recall him saying it was definitively the 869's own torpedo. He has said he felt the evidence lead to his speculation. Mr Gentile sites proof and he has no definitive proof at all.
#2 He states that John Moyer (I believe it was Moyer) videotaped the resuscitation efforts of Chris Rouse. He states that in the video...the camera was concealed...Chatterton didn't say one word to the resue diver once he boarded the boat. I have dived with Chatterton on several occations and if anyone else has they will know that John is constitutionally incapable of not talking
#3 During his writing about the sinking of the U-869 Mr. Gentile talks about his own research into the discovery and has the balls to say he had figured out it was the U-869.
#4 I had alot of trouble in the part of the book where he talks about discrepancies in many of the things related to Chatterton's and Kohler's accomplishments as being total fabrications. His charges seemed plausible since he sited many people to back up his claim although I can't recall alot of quotes from these people.
Here's the kicker related to this. It's the part about his "interview techniques" toward the end of the book...before the appendicies. Then I found relief when I read about his way of getting the "truth" out of people who were diving with John and Richie. Those who remembered it another way other than his. Mr Gentile remembers the actual truth when many times he wasn't even present on these dives.
#5 Mr. Gentile includes the term "Deep Sea Defectives" regarding the History Channel episodes. I must admit I think it is pretty funny, but also pretty adolescent by calling people names.
#6 If he mentioned "my faithful readers" one more time I think I would have puked
I don't believe for a minute that the author did not take some creative license with Shadow Divers, but what book hasn't. I doubt there is one single non-fiction book ever written that hasn't taken some creative licensure in its writing. It doesn't make them fiction as Mr. Gentile states Shadow Divers is. If Shadow Divers is a work of fiction, I believe Shadow Divers Exposed is more so.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
I know John Chatterton, I was teaching with him at the same dive shop for many years. In fact he took one of my courses at one time. He does like to talk and would not stand by without saying anything, that's a fact. Take his word for it. He's a great dwon to earth guy. Whatever he accomplished, he earned it.
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