Advice needed for Suunto Vyper: switching from gauge to air modus impossible?

[Genesis]

and am quite aware of where "the wall" is with it.

In fact, that's one of the reasons that I use VPlanner - to determine exactly where the wall is in terms of the redundancy I have with me (e.g. how much obligation can I have and still complete it assuming a TOTAL backgas failure), so I can control risk.

 

[nitroxbabe]

Yep.

MechDiver once bubbled...


That's exactly the point Nitroxbabe and I (I think) have been trying to make. You have no choice but to dive the computers profile, even if you know you have a better one more suited to the dive you're doing.

What I'm saying is the computer is not flexible, has flawed profile algorithems, and is not suited to deco diving beyond rec NDL limits. That's what tables and a B/T are for
Not knocken the computer per se, just the use.

And I understand now what you meant about the 70' depth. With the proper equipment suited to that style of diving, I decide how much deco I want to do, then decide on the depth and bottom time, and gas to accomplish that level of deco. You cannot do that with the Suunto. Any of them.

MD

 

[Scuba_Vixen]

Vicky is saying that the vyper/vytec will let you dive your profile as you wish, (ie: slower ascent or deepstops, etc.)When you do so, you have to accept that the Total Time to Surface will be increased since the deco time will increase over that which the simulator gave, because you were at ongassing depths longer than the simulator had you at ongassing depths based on it's default ascent profile. The sim has to have some default ascent profile, or it'll lack enough info to compute any deco info at all. The downside of the somewhat unexpected increase in deco obligation, is that you now need more gas that you thought you'd need when you first looked at the Time To Surface display when you began your ascent.

If you want to be able to cut tables from the simulator as backup incase of comp failure, you'll have to dive the sim's profile to make them valid, otherwise, it's an iron pony ride.

If you want deep stops and a slower ascent, just cut tables from V-Planner (or whatever you like), and either follow them if the comp fails, or at least plan your gas supply on the tables, and that way, you'll be covered for the extra deco time the comp gives you over the deco time the sim gave you, since you ongassed during the slower ascent and deep stops that the sim couldn't account for.

Perhaps the best way to get some meaningfull numbers from the sim would be to add the extra minutes you expect to spend on deep stops and slower ascent to the intended bottom time. That will probably give a more realistic approximation of the actual deco time you'll incur, but I'd be hesitant to plan gas use from it, as the comp will have it's deco time at a shallower depth, (lower ata, hence gas usage rate) than you will actually be at for the deeper stops.

You just can't have your cake and eat it too. At least not untill you get into those $1200 computers that let you download the whole diveplan into it.


I hope I've finally got all this into perspective.



Darlene

 

[vicky]

One last thing- I think it is a bad idea to use Suunto's simulator in order to "cut dive tables" from it. I don't think this is the appropiate use of this software. Suunto's SDM is just a cute software to see how the computer behaves, lets you get acquainted with the computer's behaviour with repetitive dives, reverse profiles, saw profiles, etc. without getting wet... Good also for people who just bought the computer and want to know its limitations.

I wouldn't plan anything with SDM. I'll use V-planner (or similar) on conservative mode, plan gas supply etc. Then, if I am bored, I'll look what SDM makes of this dive, just for curiosity. Then I'll do the dive with a slate that includes all the stops from Vplanner, including alternative bailout options (e.g. exceeded bottom time, exceeded depth, both, etc.). I'll take the Vyper along with me, but I'll dive the original plan. Even if for some reason I had to start ascend before time, I'll stick to original plan and not follow the computer, so basically the computer will be more of a bottom timer than a computer but it will still be monitoring my true profile and if for some reason I don't know which but suppose it happens, like both me and my buddy loose our dive plans (or I get separated from him) I'll still be able to use the computer..

 

[Genesis]

On any dive where going into deco is a realistic possibility (or part of the plan!) I cut tables on VPlanner first, then dive the Vytec, but with the Vplanner style ascent profile and deep stops.

If for some reason I have to violate the Vytec, I know what the ascent profile given VPlanner is, and conform to that.

However, the Vytec gives me useful information on both sides - it gets me out of the water faster, while doing my ascent and stop profiles (very close to what VPlanner will do with your profile) anyway, but if it breaks (or I have to break its model) I have a profile from VPlanner that will (presumably) get me to the surface in good condition. If, on the other hand, some extreme event causes me to violate the original dive plan (in VPlanner), I have a tool on my wrist which SHOULD get me to the surface without bending me (maybe - given the rather aggressive nature of the Vytec's/Vyper's, etc. deco algorythm.)