Any idea when we should be looking for this wing in the States? She looks sharp (could have something to do with the photo I saw on the UK site) and I like the idea of a double layer, and I like the shiny metal inflator.
Halcyon Prouduction, DIR, and ironic facts of life
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Any idea when we should be looking for this wing in the States? She looks sharp (could have something to do with the photo I saw on the UK site) and I like the idea of a double layer, and I like the shiny metal inflator.
SeaJay
Contributor
Scubaboard got the attention of JJ himself! Apparently he felt strongly enough to post a message. All I can say is that Scubaboard's honored to have such a distinguished poster. How very cool.
I imagine that JJ's got better things to do besides follow this thread, so perhaps my post here will not be read... But with the likes of MHK occassionally popping his head in and outta here, maybe it's not so far fetched that JJ might end up reading.
JJ, allow me just to say, "thanks" for what your program has done for my diving. Without your ideas, I would dive very differently today. Sure, I'm aware of the fact that your program was really just a culmination of "what worked" in the diving you were doing... And that while some of the older, more experienced divers here will argue that you didn't "invent" the dive style... Nonetheless, you developed the program. Many of us have had our diving touched by that program. For that, I thank you.
About three weeks ago I was in EE... And I had the opportunity to talk to a gentleman who worked there. I'm sorry, I can't recall his name (tall, blondish and very fit; discussing the possibility of going into commercial diving). However, as all of your employees there, he was very helpful and knowlegable on diving and on the gear offered in the store. When I overheard him comment that he had a meeting with you in a few minutes, I thought that I might get the opportunity to meet you and say, "thanks" for what your program has done for my diving. Unfortunately, I was limited in time, and the springs were calling my name... So I was forced to decide between diving or meeting you. I'm afraid I chose the former.
But that in itself shows the effectiveness of your DIR program. I enjoy diving now more than ever. Thanks for improving the dive industry as a whole. I can't imagine how difficult it is to keep this standard with such krass and bold opinions flying around all the time... Yet, you do. In fact, you improve them over time.
This weekend I was at Ginnie again, and on surfacing, someone was excitedly talking about the "DIR divers" that were apparently in a class in the main spring. What I found amazing was that they didn't have "DIR" stamped on their foreheads... They had nothing on or around them that classified them as "DIR." Yet, they were immediately identifiable, even to those who were not DIR. The proof of the quality of education lies in the fact that they were immediately identifiable through their skills alone. That speaks in droves about the effectiveness of the program.
I hope one day to get the opportunity to shake your hand - but not for your notariety... For the effect that your program has had on my diving... And also to congratulate you on your conviction to excellence.
I can't imagine that any company could please every customer... My family owns a multitude of businesses, and so I'm intimately familiar with customer service, as well as the impossibility of pleasing every customer all of the time. But I will say that you've gone to great lengths to come as close to that as possible. I own quite a bit of Halcyon gear as well, and have never had any problems with any of it. Additionally, Extreme Exposure, the shop which gets my business almost exclusively, is equally committed to excellence. I believe in my heart that if these people who complain had purchased their Halcyon gear through EE, their problems would not exist.
At any rate, thank you for your comments. I'm sure that everyone here can respect the fact that in your position, your time is worth quite a bit... And we thank you for sharing some of it with us.
I look forward to meeting you one day.
Hey, I'm taking Mike Kane (MHK here on this board) to dive the Andrea Doria one day... He was my instructor at DIR-F, and I promised I'd take him. We haven't set a date yet... My skills are not yet there. I'm looking at a five-year goal or so. I'd like to extend that invitation to you, if you're interested.
Again, thanks for everything you do... And thanks for putting the program together from which I've benefitted.
One last thing, JJ... Genesis, the gentleman near the top of this post, has developed an organization aimed at "undoing" a lot of the dive industry's current problems - not unlike what you've done. In a way, both of you are pioneers in your respected fields. You mentioned in your post that you were looking for new, fresh ideas, and that you'd stopped by Scubaboard to check things out and "stay current." Please consider Genesis' website, listed in his signature. I don't know if his ideas are applicable, or even desireable, but if you're looking for "fresh ideas," you might find some there. We'd be really interested in your reaction to some of these ideas as well.
O-ring... I know you were just joking, man, but for the record, I've never "sockpuppetted" anywhere. I swear.
I imagine that JJ's got better things to do besides follow this thread, so perhaps my post here will not be read... But with the likes of MHK occassionally popping his head in and outta here, maybe it's not so far fetched that JJ might end up reading.
JJ, allow me just to say, "thanks" for what your program has done for my diving. Without your ideas, I would dive very differently today. Sure, I'm aware of the fact that your program was really just a culmination of "what worked" in the diving you were doing... And that while some of the older, more experienced divers here will argue that you didn't "invent" the dive style... Nonetheless, you developed the program. Many of us have had our diving touched by that program. For that, I thank you.
About three weeks ago I was in EE... And I had the opportunity to talk to a gentleman who worked there. I'm sorry, I can't recall his name (tall, blondish and very fit; discussing the possibility of going into commercial diving). However, as all of your employees there, he was very helpful and knowlegable on diving and on the gear offered in the store. When I overheard him comment that he had a meeting with you in a few minutes, I thought that I might get the opportunity to meet you and say, "thanks" for what your program has done for my diving. Unfortunately, I was limited in time, and the springs were calling my name... So I was forced to decide between diving or meeting you. I'm afraid I chose the former.
But that in itself shows the effectiveness of your DIR program. I enjoy diving now more than ever. Thanks for improving the dive industry as a whole. I can't imagine how difficult it is to keep this standard with such krass and bold opinions flying around all the time... Yet, you do. In fact, you improve them over time.
This weekend I was at Ginnie again, and on surfacing, someone was excitedly talking about the "DIR divers" that were apparently in a class in the main spring. What I found amazing was that they didn't have "DIR" stamped on their foreheads... They had nothing on or around them that classified them as "DIR." Yet, they were immediately identifiable, even to those who were not DIR. The proof of the quality of education lies in the fact that they were immediately identifiable through their skills alone. That speaks in droves about the effectiveness of the program.
I hope one day to get the opportunity to shake your hand - but not for your notariety... For the effect that your program has had on my diving... And also to congratulate you on your conviction to excellence.
I can't imagine that any company could please every customer... My family owns a multitude of businesses, and so I'm intimately familiar with customer service, as well as the impossibility of pleasing every customer all of the time. But I will say that you've gone to great lengths to come as close to that as possible. I own quite a bit of Halcyon gear as well, and have never had any problems with any of it. Additionally, Extreme Exposure, the shop which gets my business almost exclusively, is equally committed to excellence. I believe in my heart that if these people who complain had purchased their Halcyon gear through EE, their problems would not exist.
At any rate, thank you for your comments. I'm sure that everyone here can respect the fact that in your position, your time is worth quite a bit... And we thank you for sharing some of it with us.
I look forward to meeting you one day.
Hey, I'm taking Mike Kane (MHK here on this board) to dive the Andrea Doria one day... He was my instructor at DIR-F, and I promised I'd take him. We haven't set a date yet... My skills are not yet there. I'm looking at a five-year goal or so. I'd like to extend that invitation to you, if you're interested.
Again, thanks for everything you do... And thanks for putting the program together from which I've benefitted.
One last thing, JJ... Genesis, the gentleman near the top of this post, has developed an organization aimed at "undoing" a lot of the dive industry's current problems - not unlike what you've done. In a way, both of you are pioneers in your respected fields. You mentioned in your post that you were looking for new, fresh ideas, and that you'd stopped by Scubaboard to check things out and "stay current." Please consider Genesis' website, listed in his signature. I don't know if his ideas are applicable, or even desireable, but if you're looking for "fresh ideas," you might find some there. We'd be really interested in your reaction to some of these ideas as well.
O-ring... I know you were just joking, man, but for the record, I've never "sockpuppetted" anywhere. I swear.
MASS-Diver
Contributor
LOL
To say that JJ's reaction to what I'm doing was "hostile" (I called him and spoke at some length on the phone about the issue with both him and a few others in Halcyon) would be quite an understatement.
BTW, when I had the wing problem, Halcyon had the replacement bladder sourced through EE. Their name appeared on both the carton for the replacement - and my credit card statement.
They are Halcyon, on the retail side.
Thanks all. I am very appreciative of your notes. I am going to finish up a historical perspective note today if time allows because I feel that many really just don't understand the evolution of DIR, Halcyon, or GUE.
More info about the inflator and wing will be available shortly. I have been dragging my feet on the new wing here in the states because I wanted to ship it with the new inflator which we wanted to get just right. Both will be out within a month.
Genesis, I am amazed that you could pretend I was hostile toward you. I simply did not agree with your interpretation. I know you have some experience in business but all markets are not alike and I should be as free to disagree with your perspective as you are with mine. If you had the experiences that I have then I doubt you would be so firm in your conviction. I agreed to talk with you and agreed to receive your fax notes so that I could consider the issue as it evolved. Seemed pretty fair to me.
EE is not the retail arm of Halcyon. My partner in Halcyon has no ownership in EE so this is clearly not equitable. Review the Halcyon site and see how our dealers are represented and tell me how we preference EE. Call or email Halcyon (on your own - any of you) and ask to buy gear and see if they send you to EE.
Genesis, you may well be doing a good thing. I happen to think that there is much you do not recognize but time will tell and frankly I am only invested in being sure that our customers are well supported by quality facilities. I give up SIGNIFICANT profit to try and facilitate this. My experience is that your paradigm practically ensures this will not be the case. There are many moving parts here and I am happy to evaluate as time evolves.
Best,
Jarrod
More info about the inflator and wing will be available shortly. I have been dragging my feet on the new wing here in the states because I wanted to ship it with the new inflator which we wanted to get just right. Both will be out within a month.
Genesis, I am amazed that you could pretend I was hostile toward you. I simply did not agree with your interpretation. I know you have some experience in business but all markets are not alike and I should be as free to disagree with your perspective as you are with mine. If you had the experiences that I have then I doubt you would be so firm in your conviction. I agreed to talk with you and agreed to receive your fax notes so that I could consider the issue as it evolved. Seemed pretty fair to me.
EE is not the retail arm of Halcyon. My partner in Halcyon has no ownership in EE so this is clearly not equitable. Review the Halcyon site and see how our dealers are represented and tell me how we preference EE. Call or email Halcyon (on your own - any of you) and ask to buy gear and see if they send you to EE.
Genesis, you may well be doing a good thing. I happen to think that there is much you do not recognize but time will tell and frankly I am only invested in being sure that our customers are well supported by quality facilities. I give up SIGNIFICANT profit to try and facilitate this. My experience is that your paradigm practically ensures this will not be the case. There are many moving parts here and I am happy to evaluate as time evolves.
Best,
Jarrod
Hi JJ,
In response to comment made by Bloop, one of friend also have the same treatment. I had read a lot about the Halcyon MC system and I recommended to him as well. Both of us had bought the Ranger recently and after less than 10 dives with it, had decided this is not the ideal BC for us, and so we have decided on Halcyon.
I gave him the contact number for Richmond supplies in Singapre and he specially made a trip down from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Find the place and went in. Request to see the MC system and what is so special and different than the regular bc. Their reaction was: "if you are not prepared to buy it, don;t even bother to see it." kind of attitude. My friend was a little disgusted and walk off. And the cost of the Halcyon bc is not cheap, around a month salary for me and my friend. If we are going to spend this kind of money, I think we deserve a better treatment.
For this reason, I had purchase an Oxycheq wing instead and a S&W Metal works backplate. Maybe you should look into this. Quite a number of divers here in Malaysia are very much interested in the backplate/wing system when I show it to them(I got one backplate made here locally)
Michael
In response to comment made by Bloop, one of friend also have the same treatment. I had read a lot about the Halcyon MC system and I recommended to him as well. Both of us had bought the Ranger recently and after less than 10 dives with it, had decided this is not the ideal BC for us, and so we have decided on Halcyon.
I gave him the contact number for Richmond supplies in Singapre and he specially made a trip down from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Find the place and went in. Request to see the MC system and what is so special and different than the regular bc. Their reaction was: "if you are not prepared to buy it, don;t even bother to see it." kind of attitude. My friend was a little disgusted and walk off. And the cost of the Halcyon bc is not cheap, around a month salary for me and my friend. If we are going to spend this kind of money, I think we deserve a better treatment.
For this reason, I had purchase an Oxycheq wing instead and a S&W Metal works backplate. Maybe you should look into this. Quite a number of divers here in Malaysia are very much interested in the backplate/wing system when I show it to them(I got one backplate made here locally)
Michael
detroit diver
Contributor
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Michael,
Lord knows that JJ doesn't need anyone to defend his business, but I just thought that I would add a simple point here about business.
Halycon is a Manufacturer and sells to the retailer that you deal with. Although I'm sure that he would much rather have had you be a happy customer with a great experience, for the most part he has no control over what his dealers tell their customers (within reason). It's the same way that Mares or Scubapro have no control over what the zillion scuba sales people say to their customer. Unless you own the retail shop, you lose control once the product leaves your factory. It's just a fact of business.
To come full circle, I believe that's exactly why the size of GUE is what it is today. There is complete control over the quality of the instructors and the information that they give out. They can do this with, I believe, 37 or so instructors.
Lord knows that JJ doesn't need anyone to defend his business, but I just thought that I would add a simple point here about business.
Halycon is a Manufacturer and sells to the retailer that you deal with. Although I'm sure that he would much rather have had you be a happy customer with a great experience, for the most part he has no control over what his dealers tell their customers (within reason). It's the same way that Mares or Scubapro have no control over what the zillion scuba sales people say to their customer. Unless you own the retail shop, you lose control once the product leaves your factory. It's just a fact of business.
To come full circle, I believe that's exactly why the size of GUE is what it is today. There is complete control over the quality of the instructors and the information that they give out. They can do this with, I believe, 37 or so instructors.
... you are (of course) free to disagree with my perspective. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me - we simply disagree on your firm's (along with others in the business) practices and the effects it has on the industry, as well as the ethics of the matter.
The hostility I noted was not solely (or even mainly) from you. In fact, it didn't even begin with you - it began with Charlie Roberson, your sales manager who hung up on me in mid-sentence when informed of the petition, and had some rather sharp words immediately preceding the "click." If you recall, I immediately called back and insisted on speaking with you, taking his actions to be entirely inappropriate. If you also remember from that conversation, you initially did not want the petitions, but you changed your mind when I explained that the software automatically sends back all signers notification of the person(s) and firm(s) who refuse them (and notification of those who accept delivery and have had the signature queued to them.)
As for EE, when I called Halcyon on the wing with the staple holes (which predated my petition activity by a couple of months) I was told directly to get the bladder from EE, and that Halcyon proper would not sell or ship me one, nor warranty the one that was damaged, as Halcyon refused to deal directly with end users. It was your staff that told me, quite bluntly, that EE was your "retail" arm and that I needed to call them to get the part I needed. I did so and have the charge on my plastic to prove it.
If the issues, as it appears from the postings in this thread, bear on the actions of your staff perhaps more than on you personally, they are still "yours" as the man in the corner office. As I'm sure you know an action which you permit is equally reflective of your company as if it came from your own keyboard or phone.....
Anyway, I still see things the same way regarding Halcyon, but like you, I do have an open mind. Were Halcyon to change its view on the market and issues such as the infamous staples, my viewpoint might change.
As with all things and all people, I can evaluate only what is in front of me.
blackice
Contributor
It's a pity that many people seem as though they have blinkers on when it comes to things that fall outside the "standard" jacket BC and rec diving. I have found this a bit within my own friends (it's got to the point that I'm considered the "DIR diver", not that I'm worried or fully DIR) and certianly it is around in Singapore within the dive shops.
I actually went to Richmond last night to buy a dive bag (I bought it), and as I was looking around I noticed some Halcyon gear at the back area of the shop, all excited I looked at it and asked a few questions, seemed ok, but then I had just bought a bag and I didn't know they had Halcyon BC's there - none on display that I saw. they did have reels, spools, lift bags and SMB's also ACB pockets but some of them looked old with ScubaPro buckles and they had a Scout aswell.
Should you ever wish to look at or try the Halcyon MC System I would recomend Blue Manta in Singapore. I hired an MC system for a trip to GBR (australia) from them to try. I liked it and on my return bought a set from them. Later on I again hired a set for my wife to try. They have been very helpful and have lots of real gear in the shop (for both single and double tanks, they even lent me a reg set to try out the long hose, which I then ordered (that did take a while- shipping issues / out off stock)) as they teach tech divers. I found it very helpful to sit and chat with them.
Blue Manta - Highly recomended
orca
Guest
Hi mleong,
Has it ever occurred to you that you've been to the wrong shop to ask for the equipments?
The shop you've been to are the distributor of another popular brand of diving equipments, obviously Halcyon is not the first line of items they would like to sell you
. If you were there to ask about their main products, am sure they'll treat you nicer FYI, sometimes I still get the 'attitude' problem at that shop If you're still interested, try talking to Living Seas, located at Riverwalk, they have an in-house GUE instructor
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