Lost in a cave

[seaducer]

This is not about Scuba Police. This is about an individual certified by at least one training agency to train divers in a very unforgiving sport . This individual was acting in a mentor/guide capacity bringing less experienced divers on a reckless dive plan that violates one of the most important rules in cave diving. It does not need to be swept under the rug. Willful blindness to this misconduct is what is counterproductive. Would you want your loved ones to be certified by an instructor who does this?

If the instructor responsible wants to say "It was me, I screwed up, it wont happen again" that is a step in the right direction. There can be no forgiveness without repentance.

I have to say I kind of agree here. I mean, if we cannot expect a higher level of knowledge, common sense, and just plain diving smarts from our instructors, then why are they instructing?
The two divers are one thing, but the instructor is a pro, who not only should have known better, but should have known why rules are written. If he/she doesn't, should they be trusted to continue educating?

 

[CapnDan]

I'm surprised that OW divers are considered to be such prize idiots where caves are concerned. If you ran a line into a shark's mouth, would they follow it in?

 

[seaducer]

I'm surprised that OW divers are considered to be such prize idiots where caves are concerned. If you ran a line into a shark's mouth, would they follow it in?

I don't know that cave divers think all OW divers are idiots. But someone who is not trained to cave dive, yet follows a line in is. I would hope untrained divers would stay out, but as I am sure you know, some might venture in.

 

[ae3753]

Not that OW divers are idiots. I think that most don't know any better. Curiosity gets the better of people.

The cave appears static, and quite inviting. It was only when I took a Cave class did I fully realize the many number of ways that I could die.

 

[Dadvocate]

When my fiancé and I were in Palau last year, we were scheduled to do an ‘easy’ cave dive at Chandelier Caves. In that dive group was a father and daughter pair, both newly certified open water divers.

When we got to the mouth of the first cave, the father kicked up so much soot that the visibility went from murky to a London fog storm in no time. I thought immediately that this was a bad idea. I signaled to my fiancé that this felt wrong. We turned around and let the DM take the newbies into the four-chamber cave as we high tailed it out of there. This father (with something like 18 dives) was way over his head and flailing his arms out while swimming. The DM had to guide him “discovery dive” style into each chamber. We had no desire to be anywhere near that show. I really can’t imagine why anyone would bring someone into a covered environment who is still learning basic buoyancy.

Though there really wasn’t any way to get lost in these caves, it was very apparent to me that untrained cave diving is not something I want to be associated with. Also, the level of the others with you makes all the difference in the world, even with the ‘easiest’ of diving conditions. I readily admit that my skills are not enough to enter a cave while diving. I may choose to avoid this type of diving altogether. It is too early too tell. If and when I do decide I’d like to try, I will not allow myself to be a “trust me diver”.

I enjoy reading from people who do know this aspect of the sport, however. It sounds like the rules are supposed to be steadfast, and yet there still seems to be disagreements with people who all have loads of experience.

Cheers!

 

[TSandM]

As I said before, I worry about running line where cavern divers could get confused, particularly because a lot of the cavern line is gold kermantle, and my reel line is yellow. Even experienced and trained cave divers can get on the wrong line, when lines are similar and close together, like some of the reach gaps or snap-n-gaps in Mexico. How much more likely is it that some OW diver doing a cavern tour is going to get confused, when he sees two lines that look alike and are running in roughly the same direction?

However, his group leader should be reponsible for keeping the group together and for keeping track of them. That is the reason that there is not supposed to be a greater than 4:1 ratio on the cavern tours, and the guide is to be full cave (and therefore reasonably expected to have pretty good situational awareness). And I am not, ever, going to put myself or my team at risk in an effort to avoid harm to someone who is making an unacceptable mistake.

 

[orange_diver]

As I said before, I worry about running line where cavern divers could get confused, particularly because a lot of the cavern line is gold kermantle, and my reel line is yellow. Even experienced and trained cave divers can get on the wrong line, when lines are similar and close together, like some of the reach gaps or snap-n-gaps in Mexico. How much more likely is it that some OW diver doing a cavern tour is going to get confused, when he sees two lines that look alike and are running in roughly the same direction?

However, his group leader should be reponsible for keeping the group together and for keeping track of them. That is the reason that there is not supposed to be a greater than 4:1 ratio on the cavern tours, and the guide is to be full cave (and therefore reasonably expected to have pretty good situational awareness). And I am not, ever, going to put myself or my team at risk in an effort to avoid harm to someone who is making an unacceptable mistake.

is there a reason or benefit to having a yellow reel line? have you considered swapping it out for white for this very reason? just curious...there was no mention either way in my Cavern and Intro to Cave re reel line color.

 

[Peter Guy]

Orange diver -- I personally am quite happy she has yellow line on her reel because it is MUCH more visible in just about every circumstance. It really doesn't look like "gold line" at all -- but if you were color blind and paying no real attention, you MIGHT think it was the same -- even though the color is different, the size is different and the texture of the line is different. But it is closer to the color of the "gold line" than white is!

 

[orange_diver]

fair enough. i agree it would be REALLY hard for a cave diver of any certification to confuse reel line of any color and gold kermantle.

 

[drdaddy]

Cave Diving sounds crazy!

When I was younger I loved caving (in the air, not underwater). I don't get claustrophobic, so I always knew that I could get through or drug back out.

I have no interest in cave diving. No interest at all. I never want to be in a place where I can't go up for air. I get panicky just thinking about it. I loved caving (when I was younger and skinnier) and I love diving - but I will never put them together.

William