Do you dive off your own boat and make your guests sign a release form?

[Jupiter31]

We frequently have guests come out and dive on our boat and do not have them sign a waiver (my wifes an attorney; don't give her any ideas!), nor do we ask for a "donation" for gas.

We do ask they bring whatever they want to eat and drink, and give us a hand cleaning up when we return; takes 15 min's if everyone pitches in.

I figure I'm going out anyway, so a few extra aboard really does not raise my costs; from our dock to many wrecks off Key Biscayne is only 6 miles -

I have keelhauled a few guests over the years (kidding), but overall I really enjoy having folks come out with us.

 

[aku321]

I never even thought about asking for a release, but then again I don't think my friends are jerks. If something happened on the boat and they talk about suing me or something, they might have to find their own way back to shore.

 

[psychocabbage]

Again.. This countries main problem is the sue happy mentality. We really need to move away from it as a group and go back to realizing that you CAN blame yourself and get over it.

 

[jky]

Coast Guard's general take on "for hire" vs "recreational" is that there cannot be payment or service required for boarding. In other words, a recreational boater cannot say "I'll take you out if you [pay for gas; kick in $20; but lunch]"

Since the rule change a few years ago, it is now legal to accept donations ("Hey thanks for taking me out: Here's $20 for my part of the gas...") Prior, it would have been illegal.

Not saying that anyone follows this or should follow this; just the way the regs stand.

jky

 

[SkipperJohn]

Coast Guard's general take on "for hire" vs "recreational" is that there cannot be payment or service required for boarding. In other words, a recreational boater cannot say "I'll take you out if you [pay for gas; kick in $20; but lunch]"
Since the rule change a few years ago, it is now legal to accept donations ("Hey thanks for taking me out: Here's $20 for my part of the gas...") Prior, it would have been illegal.

Not saying that anyone follows this or should follow this; just the way the regs stand.

jky

That's why I got my license some 20+ years ago.

 

[mullen1200]

I think the wording is done so that you cant have a shop/policy thats like

Dive charter mandatory fee's
20 for gas
10 for food
10 for X cost
ETC...

(They would be making a profit obviously, even though its contributing towards fee's)

 

[GrandpaScuba]

It depends on your status. Are you a DM or Instructor? Then you really should consider it. Of course, I'm being a hypocrit, I don't have my friends sign releases. Most DM/Instuctors don't. Most boat owners also don't. We like to think that our friends won't sue us if something happens. But remember, it's not your dead friend that's going to make that decision. It's their surviving family members who will.

It doesn't matter if you 'officially' fall into the definition of 'for hire' when it comes to a law suit, it's: can they convince a jury that you should be liable?

There is a difference between criminal law and civil law. Remember OJ was aquitted, but was still found "liable" for Nicole Goodman's death in a civil court.

 

[Jupiter31]

It depends on your status. Are you a DM or Instructor? Then you really should consider it. Of course, I'm being a hypocrit, I don't have my friends sign releases. Most DM/Instuctors don't. Most boat owners also don't. We like to think that our friends won't sue us if something happens. But remember, it's not your dead friend that's going to make that decision. It's their surviving family members who will.

It doesn't matter if you 'officially' fall into the definition of 'for hire' when it comes to a law suit, it's: can they convince a jury that you should be liable?

There is a difference between criminal law and civil law. Remember OJ was aquitted, but was still found "liable" for Nicole Goodman's death in a civil court.

You make a point - you can be dragged into a lawsuit in this country very easily, and even if you "win", you might have the expense of your defense. You can "win" and still be out serious $$$ plus the hassle.

One thing we have done, which is something everyone should look into, is get an "Umbrella" policy - its not expensive; for our 3M - which goes into effect over and above your basic liability coverage is less than $500 for the year - you do have to pay your normal car, homeowners premium. I believe they come in amounts of 500k, 1m, 2m, 3m, and so on.

In todays world, if you injure someone driving - lets take it away from the subject for a moment b/c not everyone has their own boat- 100k, 300k, or in FL, the ridiculous 10k "PIP" (Personal injury protection) is way insufficient.

And PS - OJ was found guilty in Civil Court, where the standard/burden of proof is much less - all you need to prove is a "preponderance of evedence" vs criminal court where the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" (he was guilty as hell in both, but thats another thread!).

 

[White Knight]

I have a small boat and I don't have friends sign anything. Only friends dive with me that I really know well. No doctors or lawyers are ever allowed on the boat or anyone related to an attorney for that matter. My buddies usually pay for some portion of harbor fees, boat gas, good, etc. I usually pay most of the expenses.

 

[underwaterjon]

Just a random hypthetical:
Suppose your friend of 20 years is in the water and you negligently run him over with your boat. He is seriously injured and no longer can work. Therefore he cannot support himself or pay for the medical care that he will require for the rest of his life. You have a $5million insurance policy which if available to your friend would allow him to live a slightly more comfortable life. Are you really opposed to having your friend gain access to this money at the cost of you having to pay higher premiums in the future?

Unfortunately too many people treat insurance payments like a lottery when it really should be used solely to return an innocent party to the position that they were in pre-tort. My liability insurance on my car is the max you can buy in my province. If my negligent actions while driving ever seriously injure a person, I sure hope this pot of money is there for them.