Let's talk about balanced rigs

[Tigerman]

With all the gear and gases people are talking about here youre WAAAAY into the tech section of the board, rather than "advanced" scuba..

 

[Slonda828]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Vintage gear or not, if you're properly weighted, you're properly weighted. What's not DIR about being neutral at the safety stop at the end of your dive?

Also, plenty of DIR divers will monkey dive without a BC in tropical waters. UTD also teaches a no-BC "zero buoyancy" class (Zero Buoyancy Diving - Unified Team Diving).

I think you're reading something into DIR that doesn't actually apply.

I'm not saying anything is or is not "DIR". I am not a GUE trained diver. I am saying that weighting yourself to be light at the beginning of the dive and using your suit's compression to compensate for it is not how most people dive. I am not reading into DIR because I am a NAUI NTEC diver, so I do not "read" into DIR at all. I think you have misunderstood me.

 

[Gombessa]

-I know it's not DIR, and I'm not saying it should be.

I'm not saying anything is or is not "DIR".

Well I guess I am misunderstanding something then

I am saying that weighting yourself to be light at the beginning of the dive and using your suit's compression to compensate for it is not how most people dive.

That's not what's happening when you weight yourself correctly. If you're neutral at 10-15 feet with a near-empty tank and no gas in your wing (and minimal air in your drysuit, if that's what you dive), then you're properly weighted (at least at the end of your dive--weighting considerations at the beginning are another thing).

I'm just contending that the mechanism offered (slow expansion of wetsuit bubbles) is not the actual reason why you end up neutral in such a case.

 

[Cave Diver]

With all the gear and gases people are talking about here youre WAAAAY into the tech section of the board, rather than "advanced" scuba..

Not really.

A lot of people try to differentiate the two saying there is no crossover. Actually, quite the opposite is true. Often what will work for one works equally well for the other, it just needs to be applied a little differently.

The point here is, that if a tech diver with heavy doubles, multiple stages and deco gasses and other equipment can have rigs that are close to neutral balance, there is no reason why a rec diver has to find themselves severely overweighted.

 

[PvtStash]

Last year I wanted to see what kind off effort would be required to swim myself up in the event of a wing failure... I went down to about 70'-75', wetsuit (7mm, gloves an hood) was nice an compressed, and dumped all the air that was in my BC...

wow... I had to kick more than I'd thought just to keep from sinking...

You think that, with Fins on, well it will be EZ... and it wasnt crazy hard cus' I'm weighted pretty good , but it Was harder than I'd imagined it would be.

 

[Cave Diver]

Last year I wanted to see what kind off effort would be required to swim myself up in the event of a wing failure... I went down to about 70'-75', wetsuit (7mm, gloves an hood) was nice an compressed, and dumped all the air that was in my BC...

wow... I had to kick more than I'd thought just to keep from sinking...

You think that, with Fins on, well it will be EZ... and it wasnt crazy hard cus' I'm weighted pretty good , but it Was harder than I'd imagined it would be.

It's a good exercise for people to try. It can be a real eye opener, and the last place you want to find out is in a real emergency.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Wow thanks VoR for directing me here... very interesting information. Thanks for expanding my knowledge about diving and JeffG!

 

[Bismark]

Not really.

A lot of people try to differentiate the two saying there is no crossover. Actually, quite the opposite is true. Often what will work for one works equally well for the other, it just needs to be applied a little differently.

The point here is, that if a tech diver with heavy doubles, multiple stages and deco gasses and other equipment can have rigs that are close to neutral balance, there is no reason why a rec diver has to find themselves severely overweighted.

Exactly my point and why I took the time to be so long winded.

 

[spectrum]

((I'll read the rest of the posts in a minute. Please forgive me if I'm repeating))

Well, actually I'm going to get picky with you but first I'd like to thank you for starting this thread. This is bound to be a good one.

In the other thread he said he was wearing a 5mm wetsuit with a HP100 steel tank and 24lbs of weight. He also said that he was unable to swim it up from depth and decided to dump his weights because of that. He also seemed to indicate that he did not make an uncontrolled buoyant ascent after he dumped his weights so that lead a lot of people, including myself, to doubt if he needed the 24lbs he had. Please review the thread. These are the facts.

You are reading another thread. The one I had in mind was written by a she about her him. I just read the original and at least 6 of her follow-ups and I don't see a configuration. If it's in there please provide a post link. In the end it's irrelevant, the post is purely illustrative to enable this discussion.

My point is that there is an incessant pattern of deeming everyone over weighted. Heaven knows there are a lot of divers carrying more weight than needed. Cold water configurations are are entirely within the realm of possibility (who can be sure n the net?) are persistently point blank pronounced as over weighted. This is often done without full information of what the diver ins question's configuration actually was.

Equally absurd are divers posting a comparison of what they use for weight without an attempt to describe their comprehensive configuration.

Pete

 

[Diver0001]

You are reading another thread. The one I had in mind was written by a she about her him. I just read the original and at least 6 of her follow-ups and I don't see a configuration. If it's in there please provide a post link. In the end it's irrelevant, the post is purely illustrative to enable this discussion.

Fair enough, but since you asked, it's post number 152 in the thread you cited, where he writes My gear was a 5mm jumpsuit, 5mm high boots, 2mm hood, HP steel tank .. 100 cu in .. 34% EAN, 2 weight bags .. 12 lbs each, back inflation BC.

My point is that there is an incessant pattern of deeming everyone over weighted.

I see your point and I think there probably is some of that going on. In the thread in question, however, I think the comments were justified.

Heaven knows there are a lot of divers carrying more weight than needed. Cold water configurations are are entirely within the realm of possibility (who can be sure n the net?) are persistently point blank pronounced as over weighted. This is often done without full information of what the diver ins question's configuration actually was.

That's the tip of a big iceberg of what's wrong on internet forums generally. Many forums, including this one, have their share of cyber-expert-know-it-alls. Many such comments, however, are made with good intentions even if they're not always right on the mark. I can understand that this irritates you. I have a similar pet-peeve when I read posts from someone with an obvious skills issue and someone tells them that they have to change their gear.

Newbie: "I can't hover"
cyber-expert-know-it-all: "you need a backplate and wing".
me: (rolls eyes)

kind of the same thing, I guess.

R..