Split from: Diver Death in Cayman

[Cave Diver]

Basically what you're saying is several agencies have low standards (I agree) and it's up to the individual instructor to beef up the class well beyond what is required by some of the agencies. There are rare instructors who do exactly that, but they shouldn't have to do it. I can't buy the concept of letting agencies with poor standards off the hook for their lack of requirements. There are other agencies with higher standards. Poor standards are the fault of the agency that wrote and adopted them.

The same could be said of public school teachers. Many of them get by teaching the bare minimum, and some go above and beyond to teach their students.

If society hasn't fixed that problem yet, that affects a MUCH larger part of the public, what do you think it's going to take to change the SCUBA indusrty?

 

[Walter]

We have poor public schools so we should not hold certification agencies responsible for piss poor standards?

I don't see how one excuses the other.

 

[Cave Diver]

We have poor public schools so we should not hold certification agencies responsible for piss poor standards?

I don't see how one excuses the other.

It's not meant as an excuse. The point I was making was that if we can't fix one, how are we going to fix the other?

 

[bwerb]

It would be interesting to have a "rate my instructor" website along the lines of the "rate my doctor" and "rate my teacher" websites. With a good enough sample size either positive or negative for any single individual it might be another self-regulation option. Most of the sites I've seen and used give a rating system on several questions and a place to comment further. The "further comments" are the place where you can often see if the person making the rating has a legitimate concern or is one of the more...how should we put it..."challenged" individuals who go through life not realizing that the one constant in all their screwed-up relationships is them.

 

[ligersandtions]

It would be interesting to have a "rate my instructor" website along the lines of the "rate my doctor" and "rate my teacher" websites. With a good enough sample size either positive or negative for any single individual it might be another self-regulation option. Most of the sites I've seen and used give a rating system on several questions and a place to comment further. The "further comments" are the place where you can often see if the person making the rating has a legitimate concern or is one of the more...how should we put it..."challenged" individuals who go through life not realizing that the one constant in all their screwed-up relationships is them.

Unfortunately, I think it's very common that students think their instructor is good until they realize how much they don't know and weren't taught (and that realization often comes from reading forums, talking with other divers, watching other divers who have amazing control, etc).

I know I was pretty satisfied with my instructor (for my check-out dives, as it was different than the instructor for my confined water dives) until I realized that we didn't actually complete some of the required skills. You don't know what you don't know....

 

[crd_kats]

Unfortunately, I think it's very common that students think their instructor is good until they realize how much they don't know and weren't taught (and that realization often comes from reading forums, talking with other divers, watching other divers who have amazing control, etc).

I know I was pretty satisfied with my instructor (for my check-out dives, as it was different than the instructor for my confined water dives) until I realized that we didn't actually complete some of the required skills. You don't know what you don't know....

Then maybe they should only be allowed to rate their instructor until after they've acquired at least another 60 dives.

Only in a perfect world.

 

[Thalassamania]

Qnape, I think that the terminology "Advanced" Open Water is an unfortunate misnomer.

It is not an "unfortunate misnomer" it is an intentional lie. When PADI introduced their AOW course they modeled if after NAUI's Open Water II / Sport Diver Course but named it the same as the next higher course in the NAUI sequence, "Advanced" (being cutise about Advanced "Open Water" vs "Diver." NAUI Advanced was a well respected program that was, at the time, being required for most boat diving ... it was PADI's intent to confuse the consuming public, and they succeeded. Chalk up another marketing coup.

 

[gcbryan]

It is not an "unfortunate misnomer" it is an intentional lie. When PADI introduced their AOW course they modeled if after NAUI's Open Water II / Sport Diver Course but named it the same as the next higher course in the NAUI sequence, "Advanced" (being cutise about Advanced "Open Water" vs "Diver." NAUI Advanced was a well respected program that was, at the time, being required for most boat diving ... it was PADI's intent to confuse the consuming public, and they succeeded. Chalk up another marketing coup.

Personally, I've never understood the confusion. I took the course immediately upon completing OW. It was obvious what it was ... 4 "experience" dives.

I don't understand how anyone who has completed the AOW course would refer to themselves as advanced in reference to the course.

It is marketing of course. Even universities market themselves. I just don't see the confusion. When I eat some cereal that is "new and improved" I don't really consider the marketing slogan. I get it.

 

[Thalassamania]

The confusion was created because NAUI (then the dominant agency) had a sequence that went Open Water, Open Water II (also known as Sport Diver), and then Advanced. PADI came in with Scuba Diver (pool only), Open Water (same as NAUI, just shorter) and then Advanced, end of sequence. It was an intentional plan to let their outlets say, "You can have PADI Advanced for half the cost and half the time of NAUI Advanced."

 

[gcbryan]

The confusion was created because NAUI (then the dominant agency) had a sequence that went Open Water, Open Water II (also known as Sport Diver), and then Advanced. PADI came in with Scuba Diver (pool only), Open Water (same as NAUI, just shorter) and then Advanced, end of sequence. It was an intentional plan to let their outlets say, "You can have PADI Advanced for half the cost and half the time of NAUI Advanced."

Interesting to know the history behind how we ended up with today's course structure.

It looks like breaking the classes up to keep people coming back for more (and reducing the initial course fee) predates PADI then? If NAUI had OW, OWII, and Advanced rather than just a comprehensive course it seems that PADI was just following in this regard.

How long back does one go to find the days (and which agency?) of one comprehensive class (OW) and that's it?