He has announced numerous times he will be back, If your worried about that type of thing then by all means cancel because he will probably be talking about comming back long aftyer your trip is planned for.
Would You Go To Bay Islands, Honduras?
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He has announced numerous times he will be back, If your worried about that type of thing then by all means cancel because he will probably be talking about comming back long aftyer your trip is planned for.
OP
TraineeDiver
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AS I have said fifty times I am negotiating for the option of a refund and enquiring of the members of this forum what their experience and or opinions are before I make a final decision.
I don't need or want you to hold my hand or to cuddle me (thanks for the offer) and may I suggest you take a valium and have a lie down because that last post of yours was one humdinger of a psychiatric cabaret!
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See, It was really just a test. I previously replied with good honest information about the last week and a half in the Islands and what it was like and what i felt abot travelling. I thought you must have put me on ignore instead of Roatanman so I figured i would try the approach you seem to like.
Anyway, seems this thing has you a lot more worried than most on the forum, actually probably more than anyone else if you read through all the posts on the topic so if you are that worried then as a new diver or diver in training you do not need all that stress along with remembering to clear your ears and not hold your breath.
OP
TraineeDiver
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Given that TACA's subsidiary is responsible for half of my itinerary and given that ISLENA shut down for a month without my being informed it is perfectly reasonable to post a message enquiring as to what others feel who may have experience in the region. Your tone is unduly snarky too and the fact that you say your last rant was simply a *test* is just you trying to backpedal and save face.
Maybe I'll just go to Thailand .... and to think I was concerned about being eaten alive by noseeums on Utila! One is far more likely to be mauled for no reason by you lot on this forum!
Toodles
*TraineeDiver stops to ladel bloody chum into the water of this forum before leaving - just to watch the water froth and churn up in a feeding frenzy of egotistical divers and diving instructors*
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Well Why didn't you just say you were concerned about Flying TACA and them not flying for a little bit due to unpaid taxes?? For some reason when you said
I thought you were talking about the political thing and not TACA's tax bill. I can see now why you are so worried. Jeez, why did you beat around the bush?
Of course TACA only stopped the Islaena portions and helped arrange trips to Ceiba for the ferry that had those conections but why i am telling you this? Enjoy Thailand, you will love it there.
FYI...
Five American business men met with the USAmbassador to Hondurasin Tegucigalpaon Tuesday, July 21, 2009. One of them sent me this.
Summary of our meeting with US Ambassador, Hugo Llorens
There were 5 of us attending the meeting, Mitch Cummins, Russ Summerell, Lloyd Davidson, Gary Chamer, and Eldon Bolton. We spent about 1 hour and 20 minutes with the ambassador. I think that this was an extraordinary amount of time.
We began by introducing ourselves, establishing our credentials (between us there was about 85 years of experience in Honduras), and stating our position on the actions that led up to and have occurred since June 28. Hugo Llorens was polite and actively listened to our points. He then expressed his and the State Department’s position. This did not vary from what we’ve all read and heard. A lively debate followed the ambassador’s presentation. Neither side changed the other’s opinion on the base issues.
Here are some key points of our discussion:
· The USrecognizes that Mel Zelaya committed various crimes
· The USfeels that there was time to pursue a more “normal” legal process to deal with those crimes
o Our position was that the Hondurans didn’t feel that there was time. They felt that the “poll” on that Sunday was the action that was going to cause the fall of their democracy. They felt that they HAD to act then.
· The USbelieves that the resolution of the crisis must come from the negotiations in Costa Rica. This includes the NEGOTIATEDreturn of Zelaya. I add the emphasis on “negotiated” because I believe that they are backing off the “unconditional” return that has been stated by other countries
· During the conversation, Ambassador Llorens stated emphatically that the USwould NOT allow Chavez or any other foreign power to invade Honduras. The USstill sees Hondurasas a friend and ally.
· We presented 155 signed letters opposing the USposition regarding Honduras
o THANK YOU TO ALL WHO SENT THE LETTERS IN!!!
o These 155 letters were collected in less than 24 hours – that response is amazing!
· We asked for the BayIslandsto be removed from the travel advisories. The Ambassador was going to check with his legal team, but felt that could be done. I personally believe that will happen pretty quickly.
· The USfeels that their position has given Hondurasthe space to negotiate a way out of this crisis. They have not been very vocal against what’s happened. By this I mean that they are not out slamming the current government every day. They are firm on their position, but are not beating Hondurasover the head with that position.
· We believe that this may have been the first time that Hugo Llorens had discussed these issues with Americans that believed as strongly in an opposing view to his. He is sequestered in the embassy – he’s not allowed to leave Tegucigalpa. I think that it was VERY good for him to hear a contrary opinion.
· Hugo Llorens said that if there were other Americans that wanted to meet with him, he would make time for them. I think he was sincere about that. He also said that as soon as he was allowed, he would come out to the islands.
· As we were leaving we let his assistant know that we were going to be more vocal in our opposition to the USposition.
After we left the ambassador we went back to the hotel and were debriefing over a beer. We received a phone call saying that the Honduran Foreign Minister had heard about our meeting and the petition that we presented. The Foreign Minister’s office wanted to meet with us.
We spent well over an hour with 3 advisors to the Foreign Minister. We began by stating our solidarity with the Honduran people and the actions that were taken. We talked about the letter, what it said, who had responded, etc. They want to publish that information both domestically and internationally. We also talked about what we saw as issues that the government was facing. We talked about the fact that the debate on was it a coup or not is over. Don’t spend another ounce of energy on that argument. Hondurashas to focus on the future. We pushed very hard to promote the idea that Herb Morici presented at the meeting on Monday. That idea was to get Pepe Lobo and Elvin Santos to stand together and present a common front until the campaign starts. It’s time for them to become the poster boys of the next government. They liked that idea and said that they would work to make that happen quickly.
We also talked about ways that the ex-pat community and the Foreign Ministry can interact and coordinate. I believe that we established a good relationship in that meeting and I’m positive that you will see some good work between the two groups.
At the end of the day, we made our voices heard to the USAmbassador to Honduras. I’m positive that he heard our message that we do not agree with the official position. I am confident that the BayIslandswill be removed from the UStravel advisories. I think that we’ve opened a dialogue with the ambassador that should be continued until this crisis is resolved. I think that we’ve been able to impress upon the current government of Honduras, at a high enough level, that it is imperative that the 2 candidates step forward and begin to be the face of the Honduran future. I think that we’ve established a working relationship with the Foreign Minister’s office so that we can help each other through the next several months.
All in all, it was a long but productive day. I think that I speak for all of us attending these meetings when I say that it was one of the most interesting days I’ve experienced in a long time.
Mitch
ParadiseComputers, S.A.
Roatan's #1 Technology Provider Since 1997
MangoTreeCenter
Coxen Hole, Roatan
445-1394/1241/1611
Paradise Computers - Internet Cafes, Computer Sales & Service
Also:
WASHINGTON, UNITED STATES .
A group of lawmakers led by Republican Connie Mack, the weekend will travel to Honduras to express to the Honduran government and its support for a peaceful solution.
Lawmakers, who made his first trip to Honduras from U.S. congressmen after the events of June 28, are scheduled to meet with representatives in Tegucigalpa Roberto Micheletti government and other public authorities.
"I hope to get to Honduras to hear directly from members of the government of Honduras about the political situation, as well as progress in negotiations in Costa Rica," said Mack.
"It's important to remember that the departure of Manuel Zelaya was not a coup. The Supreme Court of Honduras, the Attorney General, Congress and the Honduran people did the right thing to cope with Zelaya when misused the law and destroying the Constitution, "he said.
"At this time of turmoil, the people of Honduras deserve to know that United States and other freedom-loving nations around the world and want to support a peaceful and legal solution," he added.
My two cents....
Things here in Roatan remain peaceful. Tonight I took our divers to Hole in the Wall, my favorite dive site on the island. It's non-stop swim throughs. 70 ft for 60 minutes was the profile we called in. Most of the diving we do is multilevel in nature. It was a magnificent dive, octopus, decorator crabs, basket stars, string of pearls, nudibranchs, and even the unwanted sea wasps. Should you decide to wait on coming to visit at this time, do come some other time. I left the corporate world b/c of this special place.
CNN, Fox, WSJ, and even the BBC have been reporting inaccurately. CNN did the same last year when they reported live from Roatan regarding hurricanes Dean and Felix. The damage according to them was devastating. The issue with the report is that it wasn't live in Roatan at all, it was somewhere in Cancun. We were sitting in Sundowners having beers watching the sunset during all the devastation. Straight lies.... and that is as true as it gets.
My sister is here visiting from Jacksonville, Florida. She's going to be here for another 4 weeks. I would have told her to stay or reschedule her trip if it were indeed a hazardous time to be here.
Even when "things" are normal, I would still recommend taking the direct flight into Roatan. You can then hop on Vern's catamaran and head to Utila. You'll bags have a higher likelihood of making the trip on time the less flights you take. It's more expensive I realize, but that's how it goes.
Good luck with your decision... and have a great dive vacation wherever you go.
Five American business men met with the USAmbassador to Hondurasin Tegucigalpaon Tuesday, July 21, 2009. One of them sent me this.
Summary of our meeting with US Ambassador, Hugo Llorens
There were 5 of us attending the meeting, Mitch Cummins, Russ Summerell, Lloyd Davidson, Gary Chamer, and Eldon Bolton. We spent about 1 hour and 20 minutes with the ambassador. I think that this was an extraordinary amount of time.
We began by introducing ourselves, establishing our credentials (between us there was about 85 years of experience in Honduras), and stating our position on the actions that led up to and have occurred since June 28. Hugo Llorens was polite and actively listened to our points. He then expressed his and the State Department’s position. This did not vary from what we’ve all read and heard. A lively debate followed the ambassador’s presentation. Neither side changed the other’s opinion on the base issues.
Here are some key points of our discussion:
· The USrecognizes that Mel Zelaya committed various crimes
· The USfeels that there was time to pursue a more “normal” legal process to deal with those crimes
o Our position was that the Hondurans didn’t feel that there was time. They felt that the “poll” on that Sunday was the action that was going to cause the fall of their democracy. They felt that they HAD to act then.
· The USbelieves that the resolution of the crisis must come from the negotiations in Costa Rica. This includes the NEGOTIATEDreturn of Zelaya. I add the emphasis on “negotiated” because I believe that they are backing off the “unconditional” return that has been stated by other countries
· During the conversation, Ambassador Llorens stated emphatically that the USwould NOT allow Chavez or any other foreign power to invade Honduras. The USstill sees Hondurasas a friend and ally.
· We presented 155 signed letters opposing the USposition regarding Honduras
o THANK YOU TO ALL WHO SENT THE LETTERS IN!!!
o These 155 letters were collected in less than 24 hours – that response is amazing!
· We asked for the BayIslandsto be removed from the travel advisories. The Ambassador was going to check with his legal team, but felt that could be done. I personally believe that will happen pretty quickly.
· The USfeels that their position has given Hondurasthe space to negotiate a way out of this crisis. They have not been very vocal against what’s happened. By this I mean that they are not out slamming the current government every day. They are firm on their position, but are not beating Hondurasover the head with that position.
· We believe that this may have been the first time that Hugo Llorens had discussed these issues with Americans that believed as strongly in an opposing view to his. He is sequestered in the embassy – he’s not allowed to leave Tegucigalpa. I think that it was VERY good for him to hear a contrary opinion.
· Hugo Llorens said that if there were other Americans that wanted to meet with him, he would make time for them. I think he was sincere about that. He also said that as soon as he was allowed, he would come out to the islands.
· As we were leaving we let his assistant know that we were going to be more vocal in our opposition to the USposition.
After we left the ambassador we went back to the hotel and were debriefing over a beer. We received a phone call saying that the Honduran Foreign Minister had heard about our meeting and the petition that we presented. The Foreign Minister’s office wanted to meet with us.
We spent well over an hour with 3 advisors to the Foreign Minister. We began by stating our solidarity with the Honduran people and the actions that were taken. We talked about the letter, what it said, who had responded, etc. They want to publish that information both domestically and internationally. We also talked about what we saw as issues that the government was facing. We talked about the fact that the debate on was it a coup or not is over. Don’t spend another ounce of energy on that argument. Hondurashas to focus on the future. We pushed very hard to promote the idea that Herb Morici presented at the meeting on Monday. That idea was to get Pepe Lobo and Elvin Santos to stand together and present a common front until the campaign starts. It’s time for them to become the poster boys of the next government. They liked that idea and said that they would work to make that happen quickly.
We also talked about ways that the ex-pat community and the Foreign Ministry can interact and coordinate. I believe that we established a good relationship in that meeting and I’m positive that you will see some good work between the two groups.
At the end of the day, we made our voices heard to the USAmbassador to Honduras. I’m positive that he heard our message that we do not agree with the official position. I am confident that the BayIslandswill be removed from the UStravel advisories. I think that we’ve opened a dialogue with the ambassador that should be continued until this crisis is resolved. I think that we’ve been able to impress upon the current government of Honduras, at a high enough level, that it is imperative that the 2 candidates step forward and begin to be the face of the Honduran future. I think that we’ve established a working relationship with the Foreign Minister’s office so that we can help each other through the next several months.
All in all, it was a long but productive day. I think that I speak for all of us attending these meetings when I say that it was one of the most interesting days I’ve experienced in a long time.
Mitch
ParadiseComputers, S.A.
Roatan's #1 Technology Provider Since 1997
MangoTreeCenter
Coxen Hole, Roatan
445-1394/1241/1611
Paradise Computers - Internet Cafes, Computer Sales & Service
Also:
WASHINGTON, UNITED STATES .
A group of lawmakers led by Republican Connie Mack, the weekend will travel to Honduras to express to the Honduran government and its support for a peaceful solution.
Lawmakers, who made his first trip to Honduras from U.S. congressmen after the events of June 28, are scheduled to meet with representatives in Tegucigalpa Roberto Micheletti government and other public authorities.
"I hope to get to Honduras to hear directly from members of the government of Honduras about the political situation, as well as progress in negotiations in Costa Rica," said Mack.
"It's important to remember that the departure of Manuel Zelaya was not a coup. The Supreme Court of Honduras, the Attorney General, Congress and the Honduran people did the right thing to cope with Zelaya when misused the law and destroying the Constitution, "he said.
"At this time of turmoil, the people of Honduras deserve to know that United States and other freedom-loving nations around the world and want to support a peaceful and legal solution," he added.
My two cents....
Things here in Roatan remain peaceful. Tonight I took our divers to Hole in the Wall, my favorite dive site on the island. It's non-stop swim throughs. 70 ft for 60 minutes was the profile we called in. Most of the diving we do is multilevel in nature. It was a magnificent dive, octopus, decorator crabs, basket stars, string of pearls, nudibranchs, and even the unwanted sea wasps. Should you decide to wait on coming to visit at this time, do come some other time. I left the corporate world b/c of this special place.
CNN, Fox, WSJ, and even the BBC have been reporting inaccurately. CNN did the same last year when they reported live from Roatan regarding hurricanes Dean and Felix. The damage according to them was devastating. The issue with the report is that it wasn't live in Roatan at all, it was somewhere in Cancun. We were sitting in Sundowners having beers watching the sunset during all the devastation. Straight lies.... and that is as true as it gets.
My sister is here visiting from Jacksonville, Florida. She's going to be here for another 4 weeks. I would have told her to stay or reschedule her trip if it were indeed a hazardous time to be here.
Even when "things" are normal, I would still recommend taking the direct flight into Roatan. You can then hop on Vern's catamaran and head to Utila. You'll bags have a higher likelihood of making the trip on time the less flights you take. It's more expensive I realize, but that's how it goes.
Good luck with your decision... and have a great dive vacation wherever you go.
Robertcrockett
Contributor
hmmmm.... to go or not to go...sounds familiar..I for one AM going. 7 days till lift off and counting. I have researched and discussed enough that i feel i will be just fine. Reports of travel destinations can be odd bugs...for instance read the travel advice for those in Europe considering coming to the states, basically WE sound like one dangerous little place. Anything can happen anywhere, i would feel reasonably safe in NY but one sept 11th day everything went to hell but that would not stop me from going now.
I follow this whole thing pretty closely and last reports make no mention of invading forces accompanying zelaya...in fact that would likely cause him to lose the support he now has from the UN etc.
"According to aides, Zelaya's plan is to enter Honduras along one of its land borders protected only by his followers.
Zelaya said he and his supporters will be flying ``a white flag of peace and calling for reconciliation in Honduras.''
Zelaya, traveling with a caravan in a white Jeep, plans to spend Thursday night in this northern town of Estelí -- known for its cigars and Sandinista-era murals -- before deciding on a final route into Honduras ~miami Herald 7/23/09~
Here is a email I received from BICD..today.
All is well out here Robert. We are not under any curfew. Two ferries are
running daily, Sosa air and all busses are running. If it were not for the
TV and internet I would not know anything is going on. All accounts from
guest coming from San Pedro say it has been "no problem" getting to Utila.
The island is a little quieter than normal. But with Sunjam and the Carnival
being pushed back until Aug., the island will probably pick up. This can be
a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.
There are talks on the internet news sites that the old president (Zeleya)
is trying to come back to the country. But, he is coming from the south. So,
if there are any protest or I would think it would stay south and won't even
touch the islands. We have had two peace marches here on Utila with the
school kids, marching bands, the whole 9 yards. That's about it.
Hope this helps. Anything else feel free to ask,
Justin
BICD Manager
Hope this helps you in some way with ur decision! Regardless utila calls my name!!!!
one final note:
LOL why do you seem so angry?
Some people inject a few witticisms here and there and u go ballistic as if ur honor had been personally challanged. The very question u asked has been asked by many others..INCLUDING ME in fact im pretty sure i started this whole mess with my "i am now a little worried" thread. It has been argued, thrown in the pub, rehashed and started again several times. That being said i think that u have every right to ask for the CURRENT opinion based on changing events or whatever.
However several posters on this board like RTB and RoatanMan have a plethora of experience in dealing with the Bay Islands...but before they post they do like a clear clarification of what it is exactly that your hoping to gain so they can help accordingly and thats irrespective of whether u have 2 dives or 20,000. I value their advice quite abit and on more than just the Islands, occasionally though ill ask a question and RoatanMan might flick me in the forehead and roll his eyes abit but he comes through with a non BS answer that gets to the meat of what i need. For some reason u turned this into a personal attack and im not sure why u are so high strung but I agree that you probably shouldnt go to Utila. If it has u this worried now it would do nothing but cause undue frustration, in what should be a great and memorable journey, in saying this im not trying to be mean or flippant just saying dont do things that dont personally feel right to YOU. Reconsider the islands in the future when things are a little more calm perhaps. If u do decide to go look me up...ill be the good looking guy at the bar telling lies and smiling at my good fortune and luck to be swilling Salva Vida's and diving great waters in Utila for a month!
I wish nothing but good luck and great times to u where ever u may choose to dive or train.
I follow this whole thing pretty closely and last reports make no mention of invading forces accompanying zelaya...in fact that would likely cause him to lose the support he now has from the UN etc.
"According to aides, Zelaya's plan is to enter Honduras along one of its land borders protected only by his followers.
Zelaya said he and his supporters will be flying ``a white flag of peace and calling for reconciliation in Honduras.''
Zelaya, traveling with a caravan in a white Jeep, plans to spend Thursday night in this northern town of Estelí -- known for its cigars and Sandinista-era murals -- before deciding on a final route into Honduras ~miami Herald 7/23/09~
Here is a email I received from BICD..today.
All is well out here Robert. We are not under any curfew. Two ferries are
running daily, Sosa air and all busses are running. If it were not for the
TV and internet I would not know anything is going on. All accounts from
guest coming from San Pedro say it has been "no problem" getting to Utila.
The island is a little quieter than normal. But with Sunjam and the Carnival
being pushed back until Aug., the island will probably pick up. This can be
a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.
There are talks on the internet news sites that the old president (Zeleya)
is trying to come back to the country. But, he is coming from the south. So,
if there are any protest or I would think it would stay south and won't even
touch the islands. We have had two peace marches here on Utila with the
school kids, marching bands, the whole 9 yards. That's about it.
Hope this helps. Anything else feel free to ask,
Justin
BICD Manager
Hope this helps you in some way with ur decision! Regardless utila calls my name!!!!
one final note:
LOL why do you seem so angry?
Some people inject a few witticisms here and there and u go ballistic as if ur honor had been personally challanged. The very question u asked has been asked by many others..INCLUDING ME in fact im pretty sure i started this whole mess with my "i am now a little worried" thread. It has been argued, thrown in the pub, rehashed and started again several times. That being said i think that u have every right to ask for the CURRENT opinion based on changing events or whatever.
However several posters on this board like RTB and RoatanMan have a plethora of experience in dealing with the Bay Islands...but before they post they do like a clear clarification of what it is exactly that your hoping to gain so they can help accordingly and thats irrespective of whether u have 2 dives or 20,000. I value their advice quite abit and on more than just the Islands, occasionally though ill ask a question and RoatanMan might flick me in the forehead and roll his eyes abit but he comes through with a non BS answer that gets to the meat of what i need. For some reason u turned this into a personal attack and im not sure why u are so high strung but I agree that you probably shouldnt go to Utila. If it has u this worried now it would do nothing but cause undue frustration, in what should be a great and memorable journey, in saying this im not trying to be mean or flippant just saying dont do things that dont personally feel right to YOU. Reconsider the islands in the future when things are a little more calm perhaps. If u do decide to go look me up...ill be the good looking guy at the bar telling lies and smiling at my good fortune and luck to be swilling Salva Vida's and diving great waters in Utila for a month!
I wish nothing but good luck and great times to u where ever u may choose to dive or train.
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