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A danger I realized on the weekend with Buddy Breathing being taught/not taught.

From a new divers perspective:

IF the OOA diver knows how to buddy breath, and has practiced it. This is a great solution, IF the OOA diver is not in a panic situation yet.

The problem I see is that if a OOA diver has NOT practiced this, you can be putting yourself in extream danger by offering to buddy breath. I can see a paniced OOA diver causing a struggle as you try to "take your turn" and potentiall causing further equipment damage during the very real chance there is a struggle (there must already be some to your octo if you are buddy breathing)

The way I see it, the OOA diver is getting desperate as they have:

1. Run out of air
2. Got your attention
3. Tried your Octo and it failed.
4. Finally they have received your reg.

Are they going to give it back if they have not trained in this?

Am I missing anything?

You are missing the fact that you (the donating diver) are holding the reg and you have a left hand. If they do not give the reg back, then you take it back. That's why you do things like count and signal, because it helps keep the other person calm. That's also why you assign menial but engaging tasks to bystanders in casualty situations.
 
A danger I realized on the weekend with Buddy Breathing being taught/not taught.

From a new divers perspective:

IF the OOA diver knows how to buddy breath, and has practiced it. This is a great solution, IF the OOA diver is not in a panic situation yet.

The problem I see is that if a OOA diver has NOT practiced this, you can be putting yourself in extream danger by offering to buddy breath. I can see a paniced OOA diver causing a struggle as you try to "take your turn" and potentiall causing further equipment damage during the very real chance there is a struggle (there must already be some to your octo if you are buddy breathing)

The way I see it, the OOA diver is getting desperate as they have:

1. Run out of air
2. Got your attention
3. Tried your Octo and it failed.
4. Finally they have received your reg.

Are they going to give it back if they have not trained in this?

Am I missing anything?
Yes, I think that you are missing something.

They have:
1. Run out of air
2. Got your attention
3. Received you working primary.
4. You have tried your Octo and it failed.
5. You are now taking your regulator back for two breaths.
6. You have practiced BB with the receiver (that's only good sense).
 
I agree with all of the refinement of the procedure, Thanks.

But my worry, after trying it for the first time since 1978, was that if the other diver has NOT practiced this, I believe I could be in danger. Even though I have the reg under my control. I am not as strong as a paniced diver fighting for their life.

Back in 78, when I did my lifegaurd training, I actually got to see a botched rescue where a young lady forgot all that we were being taught and dove in to rescue a large bury guy in serious distress. She took no aides, got to close, and the next thing you know, we were rescuing two people. (with a good outcome)

The victum simply overpowered the rescuer and would not let go. She did not dive, nor was strong enough to break his hold. When she did get free, she had a dislocated shoulder and was panicing herself.

Now I imagine that if a big burly diver did not want me to take back the reg because he did not understand what I was trying to do, a struggle could ensue.

BB is a good last resort skill, but only for those that have been taught and practiced.

I am not sure I would offer if I didnt know that the OOA diver has practiced this (I am glad my daughter and I did). It is just one more question when diving in a group, I guess.

Personally I now look at it as a skill that should be taught in the basic course. Its easy, enhances confidence underwater as the new diver is simply performing another loaded task, and on the very off chance, it may save someone.
 
But my worry, after trying it for the first time since 1978, was that if the other diver has NOT practiced this, I believe I could be in danger. Even though I have the reg under my control. I am not as strong as a paniced diver fighting for their life.

This is why some Instructors (including myself) don't teach primary donation. It breaks the first rule of every major water-rescue agency: Never put yourself in danger. As soon as you give up the primary, it's a turkey shoot. :)
 
I agree with all of the refinement of the procedure, Thanks.

But my worry, after trying it for the first time since 1978, was that if the other diver has NOT practiced this, I believe I could be in danger. Even though I have the reg under my control. I am not as strong as a paniced diver fighting for their life.

Back in 78, when I did my lifegaurd training, I actually got to see a botched rescue where a young lady forgot all that we were being taught and dove in to rescue a large bury guy in serious distress. She took no aides, got to close, and the next thing you know, we were rescuing two people. (with a good outcome)

The victum simply overpowered the rescuer and would not let go. She did not dive, nor was strong enough to break his hold. When she did get free, she had a dislocated shoulder and was panicing herself.

Now I imagine that if a big burly diver did not want me to take back the reg because he did not understand what I was trying to do, a struggle could ensue.

BB is a good last resort skill, but only for those that have been taught and practiced.

I am not sure I would offer if I didnt know that the OOA diver has practiced this (I am glad my daughter and I did). It is just one more question when diving in a group, I guess.

Personally I now look at it as a skill that should be taught in the basic course. Its easy, enhances confidence underwater as the new diver is simply performing another loaded task, and on the very off chance, it may save someone.

I like you man. Amidst all of the arguing, here are my thoughts on OW skills. At the most basic level, you can survive any situation if you are trained. You have all the equipment, but depending on it means that you might die if the equipment fails. If I can drown proof, then having a BC on the surface does not matter. If I can buddy breathe, then having two functional second stages does not matter. If I master my ascent rate by watching my bubbles and comparing them to my depth gauge, then I can watch my bubbles if my depth gauge fails and still make a safe ascent. If I can get out of my gear underwater and make a swimming ascent from depth, then I can abandon my gear if I get tangled and cannot get my gear loose at depths less than 60 or so feet (the max from which I have done a swimming ascent).

Does this mean that I never use gear? Nope, it just means that if the world went to crap that I would survive. I consider my survival a personal priority, so I practice. Do I personally feel like a dive instructor owes this to his or her students? Yes, I do.

DCBC has said numerous times that he wishes to be able to teach to a higher standard. While I agree that there should not be a nation-wide minimum standard, there should at least be an option for most instructors to be able to teach to higher standards. In many cases, that is not allowed though the inverse is perfectly acceptable. I applaud him for standing up for the things about which he feels strongly.
 
This is why some Instructors (including myself) don't teach primary donation. It breaks the first rule of every major water-rescue agency: Never put yourself in danger. As soon as you give up the primary, it's a turkey shoot. :)

You can definitely put me in this boat, except I am forced to teach primary donation, when my students show up for training with their own gear including an Air2 or similar.
 
This is why some Instructors (including myself) don't teach primary donation. It breaks the first rule of every major water-rescue agency: Never put yourself in danger. As soon as you give up the primary, it's a turkey shoot. :)

Ok, so this is probably going to end up in an unintended side-track/hijack, but I'm REALLY curious about what your objections to primary donation are. I'm a new adopter and it's worked well for me so far but if there are aspects I'm not taking into account I'd sooner know about them. If different thread required for this topic let me know.

TIA,
J
 
Ok, so this is probably going to end up in an unintended side-track/hijack, but I'm REALLY curious about what your objections to primary donation are. I'm a new adopter and it's worked well for me so far but if there are aspects I'm not taking into account I'd sooner know about them. If different thread required for this topic let me know.

TIA,
J

I suggest a different thread simply because by the time a thread has gone this far many people have written it off, and you might miss some valuable contributions from people who will not see it.
 
You mean people don't follow 50 page train wrecks?
 
Only those of us who really enjoy a good train wreck
 

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