Phishie
Registered
Is there anyway that someone that lives in the US can order some whale meat from Norway or Japan over the Internet? I'd like to try it.
Breaking news from the whale wars
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mikemill
Contributor
First of all, I've never stated that the SS crew has done nothing wrong over the years. My comments were solely focused on the video evidence produced to-date surrounding the moments immediately before the collision that resulted in the sinking of the SS vessel.
I don't claim to be an expert in seamanship, however I have some knowledge and training with the Navy (navigation/watch officer course on a 5100 ton Destroyer). I know enough to realize that regardless of the position of the SS vessel, regardless of if they willingly placed their vessel in-front of another, the law doesn't allow another vessel to alter course and ram it! If this is what happened, end of discussion, the Whaler Captain will be screwed.
That's what I see in the video; but I can't say that this conclusion is beyond question. I don't possess all the information, nor am I an expert. Saying that SS deserved it based on their actions in different locations, with different Captains, at different times isn't even circumstantial evidence. It's total speculation and prejudicial.
Any reviewing body will use expert examiners who will go over all the information in excruciating detail. We will eventually understand what really happened and we can compare our "SB expert opinions" with this when such information is released.
1. I never said they deserved it. Others have. Thank goodness I didn't say it.
2. I know you were basing the comments on only one of the many many many (did I alert you that there are many many) videos of the same event.
3. I based my comments on the following video (link provided below). Have a look.
4. From this point forward, it would please me if everyone would stop refering to "the video". It would greatly make me happy if everyone posts a link to the specific edited version of the various video footage that they are specifically thinking of or are refering to. There is no such thing as "the video" when some of the footage is taken from an SS ship, other footage is taken from the whaling ship, and there are various edits of length before and after the incident that are included in some versions and left out in others. I know this sounds snotty. And I am sure it is as snotty as when others expect you to use your turn signal. Just helps to know what is in your mind is spscifically thinking of going in terms of which spcof the various directions (video versions) you can turn (refer to).
First of all, I've never stated that the SS crew has done nothing wrong over the years. My comments were solely focused on the video evidence produced to-date surrounding the moments immediately before the collision that resulted in the sinking of the SS vessel.
I don't claim to be an expert in seamanship, however I have some knowledge and training with the Navy (navigation/watch officer course on a 5100 ton Destroyer). I know enough to realize that regardless of the position of the SS vessel, regardless of if they willingly placed their vessel in-front of another, the law doesn't allow another vessel to alter course and ram it! If this is what happened, end of discussion, the Whaler Captain will be screwed.
That's what I see in the video; but I can't say that this conclusion is beyond question. I don't possess all the information, nor am I an expert. Saying that SS deserved it based on their actions in different locations, with different Captains, at different times isn't even circumstantial evidence. It's total speculation and prejudicial.
Any reviewing body will use expert examiners who will go over all the information in excruciating detail. We will eventually understand what really happened and we can compare our "SB expert opinions" with this when such information is released.
IMHO the most sensible post in ages. What seems obvious to some may be more coloured by their biases.. certainly people looking at the same footage see the opposite and claim it is obvious
I am not an expert by any measure but I wonder if the Andy Gill accelerated to escape the collision she certainly didn't look to me like she was under way but sitting with engines idling in the beginning.... don't know how possible it would have been for them to go backwards. With the water cannon blinding them, the alarms, the seas and everything else going on could someone have hit the throttle by accident?
I will repeat what I said in my earlier post... I think both are at fault. I am glad some real experts will be making the final decision!
Yes. like I said the SS crew obviously passed the Whaler on the Port side, pulled closely across the bow and took up position clear of the course of the Whaler on its starboard side.
This can be seen clearly from this video:
YouTube - Ady Gil Being Rammed, View From Bob Barker
Although the Whaler appears to be turning to port to avoid the SS vessel (initially), it changed course sharply to starboard, on a collision course for the SS vessel. The relationship (position) between the cameraman and the SS vessel remains consistent. The third point of reference is the Whaler. In this way the actions of the Whaler can be easily identified. The only video showing 3 points of reference (allowing triangulation) is the one I've listed (unless there is another I haven't seen).
No doubt the Skipper of the Whaler had enough and no doubt was ticked (like I would be). Using deadly force just wasn't warranted.
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One point no one seems to have touched on yet. The high-pitched noise heard on the video shot from the whaling ship is not an alarm, it's a sonic disruptor that the whalers started employing last year. It's designed to immobilize rioters.
So as bowlofpetunias stated it's possible that Capt. Bethune pushed the throttles forward instead of back in all the confusion. He took the boat around the world, so it's likely he had a pretty clear idea of who'd win if he deliberately crashed his carbon fiber boat into the steel-hulled whaler.
And it's pretty unlikely that Watson would send a boat with a crew of SIX on a mission designed to crash into the whaler. IJS...
So as bowlofpetunias stated it's possible that Capt. Bethune pushed the throttles forward instead of back in all the confusion. He took the boat around the world, so it's likely he had a pretty clear idea of who'd win if he deliberately crashed his carbon fiber boat into the steel-hulled whaler.
And it's pretty unlikely that Watson would send a boat with a crew of SIX on a mission designed to crash into the whaler. IJS...
Is everyone discounting the testimony of experienced captains who are saying the movements of the SM2 are unlikely to be responses to helm commands?
These ships have turning circles of hundreds of metres, not a dozen yards. You're not going to see them spinning on a sixpence to a helm command to outmanoeuvre a fibre glass racing boat with a top speed over three times that of the whalers.
You can analyse the video footage as much as you like, but over such a short timespan the pitch and yaw of the waves is going to impact the short term direction regardless of commands from the helm
Tigerman
Contributor
And thats unlikely exactly WHY? Its not like SS dont have a history of pulling stunts like that..
That moron driving the Gill boat cut so close to the skipper of the Whaling boat how do we even know that the skipper could see what was happening? All he saw was a vessel cutting across his bow trying to drag a device to destroy his ship and then show up somewhere on his starboard side. I wouldnt want to be on a boat adrift in that part of the world and would Watson help them if that happened? I dont actually know. He discussed on the show whether they should interfere with a search that the whaling fleet was conducting for a missing sailor and had a HARD time deciding to not interfere. What a prick.
You mess with the bull, you get the horns...
The whaling is deplorable and wrong by all accounts in this day and age, BUT threatening human lives over the lives of an animal is to an Nth degree, worse than that.
If that psycho Watson and his "crew" werent in the south seas, they might be firebombing construction sites like has happened in California or destroying years worth of Medical research like ALF did in the past and condemning thousands of people to die from their "expression" of animal solidarity.
You mess with the bull, you get the horns...
The whaling is deplorable and wrong by all accounts in this day and age, BUT threatening human lives over the lives of an animal is to an Nth degree, worse than that.
If that psycho Watson and his "crew" werent in the south seas, they might be firebombing construction sites like has happened in California or destroying years worth of Medical research like ALF did in the past and condemning thousands of people to die from their "expression" of animal solidarity.
KOMPRESSOR
Contributor
No. You'd have to come over. I have some in my freezer. I also have some 80 lbs of moose, a whole deer I shot least year, 110 large scallops I picked from the ocean floor, some deliscious monk fish is still left, and of course a lot of wild mushrooms and berries we pick every fall. Not quite the average L.A. menu on the weekly basis around here...
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