Breaking news from the whale wars

[ScubaSteve]

All I can say DCBC is there is a lot of ignorance (lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified) showing here by many posters and that is NOT what fuels a discussion. It is what degrades a discussion into a pissing contest....I think we got there about 4 days ago

Reposting incorrect information (done by many here) does not make it right. Nor does it help to elevate the pissing contest to a discussion.

 

[longliner]

How about this: Throw out the politics, you can even throw out the rules of the road. For ANY captain of any boat, Job 1, priority 1, responsibility 1, is to see to the safety of their vessel and crew. If the captain of a small, fast, maneuverable boat allows his vessel to become involved in a collision at sea, in broad daylight, in reasonably good sea conditions, shame on his dumb butt. He's an idiot and it's his fault . Period.

 

[mikemill]

Ok, I will try one more time... Using your analogy: You kill a guard last year; I wasn't there and had nothing to do with it. This year we rob a bank and get caught. I would not be guilty of that death by association with you.

Whatever SS has done in the past, it's in the past. People involved in any incident at that time may be culpable. Yesterday has nothing to do with today. The Skipper of the Whaler and the AG will be held accountable for their actions, not the actions of the organization they work for unless they are directly implicated in that action. That's how it works!

Lets say you've joined a gang a few months ago. Over the last few years that gang has been extorting the local businesses for protection money and beating up those that refuse. You personally haven't been involved in that. You walk into a business that has been refusing to pay wearing all of your gang signs. Standing right outside the business, and in plain sight of the owner, is a gang leader that has been involved in the extortion and beatings of this very owner. Would the owner be justified in believing you to be a threat? Should the owner have to wait for you to start beating them before defending themselves? Would the owner be justified in beating you in what they believe to be self defense?

 

[Cave Diver]

If only people were as interested in the conflicts in Iraq or Afghanistan as we are in the Sea Shepherd.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Especially considering those cost trillions in taxpayers money.....makes a $2 million dollar chunk of fibreglass seem insignificant.

 

[JKPAO]

I use the long video from the Ady Gil. As the crew are chatting, waving, celebrating, basking, idling, look behind them. You will see the Whaler vessel swing port to get away from a similar course as the Ady Gil, then swing starboard to make the attack approach, then swing a little port to come along side, but cutting it too close and possibly wave surged to starboard, then turning more port as the Ady Gil may or may not forward thrust (could have been the water from the water cannon that caused the alleged thrust).

If the Whaler had not made the course corrections and come in for water cannon and acoustic disruptor attack on the at idle and not currently harassing Ady Gil, the collision would not have happened. The too close approach of itself is a violation of maritime rules and the fact that the collision and obvious endangerment to the Ady Gil crew happened will only result in more serious charges against the whaler Captain.

I agree that alot had to happen for this collision. There was at a minimum going to be a close quarters incident . Both parties are at fault for this. Previous video of AG cutting across the bow shows that they have played this game before on the same day.
If you could give a time stamp in the video (onboard the AG)where the whalers made the port starboard port turns. I would appreciate the insight!

Do you really think that there was no forward thrust?

Do you think forward thrust can happen from the water cannon?

Your just saying this for conversation, right?

See you topside! John

 

[DCBC]

Would the owner be justified in believing you to be a threat? Should the owner have to wait for you to start beating them before defending themselves? Would the owner be justified in beating you in what they believe to be self defense?

To answer your questions:

1. The owner would be justified in suspecting me to be a threat.

2. The owner could not defend themselves unless an actual threat existed, as they have nothing to defend themselves against. You can't shoot someone you suspect may pose a hazard.

3. No.

Perhaps you should consult a lawyer.

 

[ROMO DIVER]

To answer your questions:

1. The owner would be justified in suspecting me to be a threat.

2. The owner could not defend themselves unless an actual threat existed, as they have nothing to defend themselves against. You can't shoot someone you suspect may pose a hazard.

3. No.

Perhaps you should consult a lawyer.

Perceived threat is just as defensable as actual threat under the law.

 

[DCBC]

Perceived threat is just as defensable as actual threat under the law.

I don't know which "law" you are referring to. I think you would be hard pressed to justify deadly force in such a circumstance:

Did he by act or gesture threaten you? No
Did he threaten you verbally? No
Was he on your property? No
Was there any indication that he was going to come onto your property? No
And what did you do? I blew him a way with my shotgun.

I think not. He should just report this problem to the authorities.

He is only justified in using deadly force if it is reasonable and prudent for him to believe his life, or the life of another is in immediate danger and the only way to stop the offense is to use deadly force. What is reasonable is often decided by a Judge / Jury months or years after the situation in the calm surroundings of a courtroom.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Did he by act or gesture threaten you? No How do you know this? Were you at the helm of the whaler?
Did he threaten you verbally? No How do you know this? Were you at the helm of the whaler?
Was there any indication that he was going to come onto your property? No How do you know this? Were you at the helm of the whaler?
And what did you do? I tried to scare them off with water cannons but he sped in front of me thus causing the collision

I added a couple questions pertaining to the SS incident as well as a plausible whaler response.