Breath holding to improve Sac rate?

[Robert Phillips]

It's called skip breathing:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/34374-what-skip-breathing.html

And this is called skip reading...

 

[fdog]

A year ago I became much more serious about freediving. I also track my SAC fairly closely, and haven't really seen an improvement in it, over the same time my breath holding and depth performance has improved considerably.

Not the "expected" answer, but what's happened (or really, what hasn't happened) for me.


All the best, James

 

[elan]

In some endurance athletics, I've read some coaches use a training technique where you hold your breathe for brief periods during the workout. For example, if you're running, you may hold your breath for 50-100 m, while maintaining a constant pace before, during and after. The 'theory' is that the normal working CO2 level in the blood stream is significantly lower than what the body can tolerate, and this training resets the system to tolerate a slightly higher CO2 level. Since breathing is mainly driven by this CO2 sensing mechanism (strictly speaking, blood pH), it decreases the desire the breathe, which is using up a significant part of your effort in an endurance event. In 'theory' in the long term, something similar might have an effect diving, although with the relatively low exertion levels during most of a dive, any effects would probably be small.

On the other hand, a lot of coaching techniques seem to rely on voodoo and techniques not really proven in any scientific manner, so this could just as likely be just a lot of hot air.

I think you are asking for trouble here as increased CO2 amounts will promote narc. CO2 is more narcing than nitrogen.

 

[elan]

I am learning to improve my breath holding ability for free diving and was wondering if it will have an effect on my Sac rate? before y'all go down a dark rabbit hole, no I am not holding my breath while diving scuba. I breath slow and deep.

With a little practice I was able to improve my breath hold duration from one minute to three, not much changed this was one hour of practice. I am considering what effect it will have on Sac. if any if I continue to practice.

would it be any benefit to practice breath holding before a dive? reduce heart rate, relax etc, however increase blood CO2? good? Bad? how long is this effect? is one longer than the other?

increased CO2 will promote narc. being in the good physical shape I think and relaxing, streamlining and decreasing muscles load will cause the SAC drop.

BTW: over the short course of my diving I came to the conclusion that SAC is overrated. You do your calculations, put the tanks that carry the amount of dive you need and go diving. What is the benefit of getting low sac if your team has more than you and you have to take this into the calculation anyways. My buddy and I can get 0.35 - 0.40 on a lazy swim but if our third buddy has less gas we have to exit earlier anyways

 

[mafiajoe]

before y'all go down a dark rabbit hole, no I am not holding my breath while diving scuba. I breath slow and deep.

Phew....

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Try sending a PM to [user]TraceMalin[/user], he's an avid freediver and accomplished tech instructor who leaves in-depth informative posts. If you get an answer, please post and keep us up to date...

 

[Codiak]

And this is called skip reading...

Yep, guilty as charged.

Should never do SB before my morning coffee kicks in!

 

[SailNaked]

A bodies need for O2 must be controlled by something and it seems to be adjustable otherwise everyone that weighed 200# would have the same air needs (as measured by Sac). obviously a good plan to reduce the need for O2 by streamlining and not moving about as much, but there must be other factors. why do women use less air? (for same size in general). why do you use less if you are more fit? so far we have one point for no difference in Sac with extending breath holding. any dissenters?

we are always the last ones on the boat with over 1000# of air left. I suppose this is wasted air, however when I am diving off my own boat it is nice to be able to use all of my air and stay awhile. I would rather be limited by the tables than the bottles. And besides maybe there is something useful to be learned.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I do both scuba and freediving and I think that other than getting in better overall shape, better conditioned legs and promoting relaxation underwater, freediving is not going to cause your body to suddenly reduce the metabolic rate and dramatically change your sac, if you are already an experienced scuba diver.

Plus freedivers are know to suck A TON OF AIR very fast (at the surface on the recovery). I'd be willing to bet that this ability will allow freedivers to have a very high SAC when working super hard (as do other athletes).

Part of the conditioning a freediver undergoes is an increase in the level of CO2 that is tolerable and comfortable. This higher tolerance could cause a scuba diver who tries to really save their air, to get in trouble with CO2build-up when scuba diving.

I think that wearing the freedive fins when scuba diving will result in the greatest increase in efficiency of any single thing you can do.

This might be interesting

CO2 Acclimatization

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Fitness is a bell curve with regards to air consumption. A very fit person typically has a higher % of muscle and muscle consumes more at rest than fat does. Have you ever dived with a pro football or basketball player? I made many dives with an ex heroin addict lead rock singer and his air consumption is way better than any pro athlete I've been in the water with, including me.

Also fat is an insulator so the very fit person gets colder if exposure protection is constant. That is much of what is going on with women vs men as well; lower muscle to fat ratio and better insulation (subcutaneous layer).

Some divers would use less air using free dive fins, but some divers probably would use less air with splits; every diver is different. For me, with years of free dive experience, I use less air with my free dive fins than with my booty mares fins. I use less air solo than when I'm not solo. I use the most air when I am guiding tourists, so I bought a couple Asahi 120's.