Vortex Incident

[Hetland]

Wow! Requiring people to purchase dive insurance? Why not require everyone to carry a 19cf pony bottle? Wouldn't it be more productive to actually require someone to pass a swim test before certifying them as divers? or a stress test for that matter? How useful is that insurance if you have a heart attack at 80ft? I mean sure, your next of kin gets a check for 10 grand, but how does it make you a competent diver?

 

[mitsuguy]

I do not know the end result, but not too terribly long ago, a college student was injured badly doing some sort of doff & don exercise as part of the class...

evidently the instructor got it pretty bad because they were teaching something not listed in the course curriculum, so, their agency (NOT PADI!) would not stand up for them...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

*shrugs*

I'm glad my instructor went the extra mile, at his own risk. I know there are other instructors out there doing the same every day. Lots that don't do it, obviously, but you won't see me send them business.

 

[BR]

I'll just clarify that someone told me it was a buddy breathing exercise, but I'm not sure it was someone who understood the distinction.

 

[joe8mofo]

Wow! Requiring people to purchase dive insurance? Why not require everyone to carry a 19cf pony bottle? Wouldn't it be more productive to actually require someone to pass a swim test before certifying them as divers? or a stress test for that matter? How useful is that insurance if you have a heart attack at 80ft? I mean sure, your next of kin gets a check for 10 grand, but how does it make you a competent diver?

DAN insurance is offered free for students for their checkout dives as long as the instructor is insured by DAN; all you have to do is sign-up on their website to be insured as a student

 

[Hetland]

DAN insurance is offered free for students for their checkout dives as long as the instructor is insured by DAN; all you have to do is sign-up on their website to be insured as a student

I didn't know that, but my post was a response both to the shop's requirement, and the requirement placed on the traveler that Tom mentioned.

As an interesting side note. One of my Bonaire Travelers is from India and is required to get a Netherlands Antilles visa to visit Bonaire. In addition to the round trip airline ticket he was required by the NA to purchase DAN insurance.

That's actually more shocking to me. While I wouldn't agree that a shop forcing a student to buy insurance is a reasonable idea, I can at least fathom the justification.

 

[Tom Smedley]

We don't "require" but insist I guess means highly recommend. The person who needed a visa to NA was required to have insurance before the visa would be issued.

The DAN student program is important in liability management. If a student is injured and runs up a big medical bill their normal health insurance may or may not cover it. If the person does not get coverage and are stuck with a big bill then they have two choices - File bankruptcy or sue the instructor/shop/agency for the means to recap expenses.

If the accident is covered by the free insurance then the chances of the instructor being sued is far less.

In my opinion - the small amount for insurance is not a lot for the benefits you may derive.

But this thread has gone off course from a query about an accident to a discussion of teaching standards.

 

[Web Monkey]

I didn't know that, but my post was a response both to the shop's requirement, and the requirement placed on the traveler that Tom mentioned.



That's actually more shocking to me. While I wouldn't agree that a shop forcing a student to buy insurance is a reasonable idea, I can at least fathom the justification.

I don't find it unreasonable at all.

Our shop won't book anybody on a non-local SCUBA trip without insurance. Nobody including the trip leader wants to be far-far-away and need to choose between medical treatment and losing their home.

I buy insurance for my wife and she doesn't even dive. It's worth it just to cover treatment in case she steps on, bumps or gets bitten by something.

Terry

 

[evac93rd]

We were there and had two rescue trained divers who were actively involved in taking care of the diver. He was being re-certed at the same time that his daughter getting her open water certificate. They were making an ascent buddy breathing. He was a healthy non-smoker who was making a buddy-breathing ascent. Apparently he help his breath on the ascent and sustained a lung-over expansion injury.

IMHO he shouldn't have been buddy breathing with a student. He is a certified diver and even though he was being re-certed, is entitled to do what he wants, his daughter is a student. If her OWSI wanted to teach her to buddy breath, then he should have been the one doing it with her, not her NON-INSTRUCTOR father. Hearing her scream "Is my daddy going to die!" and seeing him having his wetsuit cut off before being wisked off in a rescue chopper is not going to give her warm fuzzy feelings about SCUBA diving.

Call me an insensitive meanie, but their OWSI had no business letting a student partner up with anyone other than himself or another professional for something as potentially dangerous as a buddy breathing ascent in this day and age when octopi are universally available. (Not to be construed as a swipe against using or teaching buddy breathing as an option.)

I'm sure that there OWSI feels terrible and since his student wasn't hurt, he won't be under any heat in that respect, but I shouldn't wonder if the issues listed above won't be raised.

 

[Codiak]

He was being re-certed at the same time that his daughter getting her open water certificate.

I'll leave the discussion wrt going beyond standards and buddy breathing to others.

However pairing up of students is normal.
If the father was taking a refresher course he was in fact only a student.
As a student he is demostrating mastery of skills and not teaching other students.

If this had been air-sharing rather than buddy-breathing they still would have been buddied.

Hopefully, father recovers fully and the daughter isn't too jaded on the sport.