Line skills

[InTheDrink]

Hi,

I am *considering* doing a cavern course this summer.

One area that I'm not only deficient in but completely ignorant of is line skills. Prior to any course I quite like to know what is required of me and what skills I can work on prior to the course.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for links etc. on line skills, drills, whys and wherefores of line skills?

Much obliged, thx,

John

 

[Doc Harry]

Don't worry about it. You will learn line skills in your training.

You don't want to develop any bad habits ahead of time.

 

[InTheDrink]

Don't worry about it. You will learn line skills in your training.

You don't want to develop any bad habits ahead of time.

Sure I do

Seriously though, I unless line skills are somehow completely different than any other skills (and perhaps they are for reasons I don't understand as I have zero experience or knowledge in this area), reading and practising them, even in a limited capacity prior to taking formal training can only be a good thing in my book. And sure I may need to unlearn some bad habits or poor practices but I'm still happier doing that than going in blind.

J

 

[ucfdiver]

The most difficult part about using the line is battling flow, and using ceiling/wall tie offs. Those things aren't easily practiced in a quarry or open water. IMO wait, cavern isn't full cave, it's cavern. You're not expected to master the skill by the end of the course.

Just curious, but if you want to learn everything before the class, why even take the class?

 

[adm3745]

Line handling is not hard. I would start on land, practicing reeling out 50 ft or so, maybe around a couple trees then bring it back in while keeping the line tight. then get in the pool and practice reeling out and back in while keeping the line tight the entire time. That and practice deploying and restowing the reel.

Those are really the very basics that I would make sure you can do before you can go into the cavern course. You will probably have to do a lot of things with that line, so having confidence to lay line without thinking about it helps with the task loading.

 

[InTheDrink]

Line handling is not hard. I would start on land, practicing reeling out 50 ft or so, maybe around a couple trees then bring it back in while keeping the line tight. then get in the pool and practice reeling out and back in while keeping the line tight the entire time. That and practice deploying and restowing the reel.

Those are really the very basics that I would make sure you can do before you can go into the cavern course. You will probably have to do a lot of things with that line, so having confidence to lay line without thinking about it helps with the task loading.

Thanks for that useful input (not that I'm in anyway insinuating that the previous posts are not useful of course ).

Any particular reel or kind of reels you'd recommend? I'm thinking my finger spool might not be de rigeur for this kind of job.

Cheers,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

The most difficult part about using the line is battling flow, and using ceiling/wall tie offs. Those things aren't easily practiced in a quarry or open water. IMO wait, cavern isn't full cave, it's cavern. You're not expected to master the skill by the end of the course.

Just curious, but if you want to learn everything before the class, why even take the class?

Thanks for your post. I think I read it too quickly at first.

Even if cavern isn't cave I'd still like to work on some of the basics so I amn't a complete idiot when I turn up.

In terms of the major challenges, like flow or ceiling/wall tie-offs - I'm completely happy to wait for working on those challenges in the appropriate environment (although I reckon you can still simulate even if very imperfectly) but just getting the vary basicest of grasps on line management - and why and when to use it - is the key thing I'm driving at here, not perfect technique in challenging environments. I'm looking for the idiots guide

And why to learn things before the class? Because I believe that if I have a grasp of the basics prior to the class then the value I can get out of the class is MUCH higher than going in completely novice, and not least so I can't challenge the instructor so that any areas that don't make sense to me beforehand will do after.

Going in without any prior knowledge makes it much more difficult to assimilate and question the material that you are receiving.

Cheers,
J

 

[Doc Harry]

Okay, since you won't take "NO" for an answer...... :blinking:

First you have to have a reel before you can practice.

I recommend a finger spool for your emergency "reel" with ~50-100 feet of cave line. There's nothing worse than have a reel jam when you're lights are out and you've lost the main line. A spool never jams, but it can be dropped.

Underwater, practice tying off the line and running out line, then reeling it back it. You don't need tie offs with a spool. This is just to get used to handling a spool without fumbling it. The spool should be stowed in one of your pockets. Also practice removing and stowing the spool without looking down at your pocket. When you look down at your pocket, your trim is thrown off.

Next you need a reel. In cavern, you're going to need a reel to establish a line from open water to the cavern line. It doesn't need to be 400 feet long, 150-200 feet is fine.

Reel selection is a personal thing. Having had to repeatedly deal with jammed line with a standard overhand reel (of course, all jams are caused by user errors), I prefer side reels now. I really like the smooth Salvo reels, they must have ball-bearings and are works of art. I think Halcyon reels are similar in quality.

(Be careful how you attached the double ender to the reel. If you attach it one way, it can lever off easily. If you attach it the other way, it can't.)

The hard part of reel is holding it in your left hand hand along with your light. You've got to keep a finger on the reel at all times to keep tension on the line. If you let the reel freely spin, it will do so and spit out a lot of line in a big tangle.

Underwater, practice laying line with your light and reel in your left hand, keeping tension on the line at all times.

The second skill to learn is being able to hover long enough in order to make a tie off. You don't want to be grabbing onto the rock to stabilize yourself while you make the tie off. You want to swim up to the tie off point, stop your forward momentum with a bit of a back kick, hover, and tie off without grabbing onto things or sweeping your hands.

Enough material to work on?

 

[InTheDrink]

Hey Doc, glad you came round to my way of thinking

Thanks for your post. I've a few questions so I'm going to try to bold them underneath and see if that works. You'll then no doubt understand that I really mean I have no idea about reels and why I'd like to get a little intro glimpse....

Cheers,
J

Okay, since you won't take "NO" for an answer...... :blinking:

First you have to have a reel before you can practice.

I recommend a finger spool for your emergency "reel" with ~50-100 feet of cave line. There's nothing worse than have a reel jam when you're lights are out and you've lost the main line. A spool never jams, but it can be dropped.

Ok, so we're making a distinction between a finger spool and a reel, right?
Finger spool is for backup, right?

Underwater, practice tying off the line and running out line, then reeling it back it. You don't need tie offs with a spool.

Why don't I need tie-offs with a spool?

This is just to get used to handling a spool without fumbling it. The spool should be stowed in one of your pockets.

Unrelated question but I just got a BP/W and a leg mounted pocket. I hate the leg pocket, more than one heavy thing in there does not help retrieval - any other good options out there for stowing?

Also practice removing and stowing the spool without looking down at your pocket. When you look down at your pocket, your trim is thrown off.

I don't need to look at any of my rig to use it

Next you need a reel. In cavern, you're going to need a reel to establish a line from open water to the cavern line.

this will seem like a stupid question but are you saying that once into the cavern there is existing line to use/hook into? And that my line will be used to getting me as far as the existing/permanent line?

It doesn't need to be 400 feet long, 150-200 feet is fine.

Reel selection is a personal thing. Having had to repeatedly deal with jammed line with a standard overhand reel (of course, all jams are caused by user errors), I prefer side reels now. I really like the smooth Salvo reels, they must have ball-bearings and are works of art. I think Halcyon reels are similar in quality.

Thanks for the tips - I'll check out both. I haven't bought new kit for a couple of days so I'm starting to get withdrawals anyhow...

(Be careful how you attached the double ender to the reel. If you attach it one way, it can lever off easily. If you attach it the other way, it can't.)

[-]You lost me on the statement above. What's a double ender?[/-]
Ok, so a double ender is a bolt snap. Ish.

The hard part of reel is holding it in your left hand hand along with your light. You've got to keep a finger on the reel at all times to keep tension on the line. If you let the reel freely spin, it will do so and spit out a lot of line in a big tangle.

Good point. Are there any good reasons not to velcro your light to your forearm so that you do not require any fingers to control it?

Underwater, practice laying line with your light and reel in your left hand, keeping tension on the line at all times.

Will do, once I get my reel

The second skill to learn is being able to hover long enough in order to make a tie off. You don't want to be grabbing onto the rock to stabilize yourself while you make the tie off. You want to swim up to the tie off point, stop your forward momentum with a bit of a back kick, hover, and tie off without grabbing onto things or sweeping your hands.

Wow, great, somethings I can do! I'm pretty ok with buoyancy trim and different kicks (including back kick although it's not going to win any awards anytime soon). I never ever use my hands.

Enough material to work on?

Yep, and enough questions for you?

Cheer Doc,
J

 

[Sas]

this will seem like a stupid question but are you saying that once into the cavern there is existing line to use/hook into? And that my line will be used to getting me as far as the existing/permanent line?

It depends where you do your course as to if there is already permanent line.

I personally found it very handy to learn how to use a reel before my Cavern course given I am so clumsy (one less thing to worry about thinking about on the course) but I had someone experienced show me ways to run line at the start (different types of tie offs and so on), maybe ask around and see if someone can run through it with you? It doesn't take long to do but helps a lot.

A spool is generally for backup, yes or for doing jumps and so on (don't worry about that yet). We were required to have a reel with a minimum of 100m of line but these were provided to us in the course. I liked the Halcyon reel a lot during my Cavern course (the one in Doc Harry's post) but I have a Dive Rite one (below) that I used during cavern diving later and also practice for Cave so I just got used to it. They do jam more easily than the Halcyon type of reel in my experience:

Basically there are a bunch of types of reels so it is best to try out a few to see what you like best. In my caven course our instructor had lots of types for us to try out so maybe check this in advance and don't get one before the course if they provide them.

I use goodman handle with a light so my hands are free, so that is an option rather than the velcro (not seen that done). It really does help to have both hands free.

Your buoyancy control and trim is fine enough to do the tie offs without grabbing onto stuff, don't worry about that. It'll just be finding where is good to tie off onto and not being clumsy with the reel as the things to learn imho.