Which sidemount to get?

[SangP]

I may be misunderstanding your comments, but it sounds like you are looking for a rig that is similar to some backpacking systems, where the weight of the pack while hiking is supported by the hips, rather than the shoulders. It would seem that this shouldn’t be a particular issue for a scuba harness since, in the water, you are horizontal (for the most part) and weight distribution, other than for trim, shouldn’t be a primary concern. (Yes, carrying BM doubles on land, if you have a significant distance to travel between car and dive site, might be a concern.)

You're right, that's a big concern cus I'm not a big guy. Balancing 3-4 tanks while doing a beach entry on slippery round rocks at places like Bali ain't easy. I prefer to put as much of the load around the hips instead of being high up. That and a recent knee surgery has me looking around for alternatives to not f%#k up my knees anymore.

You are experiencing one of the exciting things (for me at least) about the current state of sidemount equipment development. While the rapid introduction of commercial SM rigs (Nomad, Razor, RECON, Armadillo, PROFILE, etc) has increased the ‘accessibility’ of SM to a broader audience of divers, the development is in some ways still in its adolescence, and there is a lot of appeal to ‘gearheads’ (I say that positively, as I fear I am one) – people who want to tweak their set up, refine it, experiment with it, etc. I did a presentation on sidemount diving last night to our scuba club, and had a conversation afterward with a member who is a very enthusiastic vintage equipment diver, about the similarities between vintage and SM in this regard. For the vintage folks, a bit of engineering goes on, because parts and specific equipment may no longer be commercially available. For SM, a bit of engineering goes on, because what is available may not suit everyone and it is fun to try different alterations. So, we benefit from the years/decades of tweaking and refining that people like Lamar Hines and Steve Bogaerts have done on their own gear, but still find ways to try and improve commercial rigs to meet our own individual needs.

You & I too, it feels more like an incurable disease for gear heads like us. I haven't even done a single sm & I'm already trying to reinvent the wheel. I've even done some cad drawings of the weight support components of my ideal sm rig.

SangP

 

[georoc01]

I am curious. Why wouldn't the resort let you sidemount? Was it just because they didn't want you / anyone using doubles in general? Are you referring the the PROFILE system - the soft plate and buttplate - or to the whole rig (harness, wing, and soft plate)? What was it about the system that seemed bulky? (I am not looking for a way to disagree with you, just trying to evaluate the pros and cons of the OMS rig.)

Rather than just a butt plate that attaches to the bottom of the BP/Wing, this attaches to the top of the BP, then through the two bolts, and runs then beyond the wing where the rails are to attach the tanks.

My instructor at CTD, Monte Graham was working to go as minimalist as possible, going with the smallest wing he could find with the butt plate attached to the bottom of his back plate. Meanwhile, I was diving with my doubles wing so my rig wasn't nearly as streamlined as his.

 

[SangP]

Probably not, Halcyon gear tends to have some sort of internal sensor that flips out when its around stroke gear. I tried using a Halcyon primary once in a sidemount cave, the damned thing imploded at the mouth of what was essentially a very tight, hairy firehose of a restriction. I was angry and laughing all at the same time.

Half the above post was made in jest, the other half... not so much :/ I'm sure you can figure out which is which.

Mention H gear & sm in the same sentence and you've never be able to finish it lol!

But I don't care cus I'm going to marry the 2 and if I get some weird freaky looking monster that fine !

SangP

 

[Colliam7]

Rather than just a butt plate that attaches to the bottom of the BP/Wing, this attaches to the top of the BP, then through the two bolts, and runs then beyond the wing where the rails are to attach the tanks.

Right, I understand that. I believe this is the unit you are referring to (but please correct me if I have misunderstood).

That is why I was asking what was so cumbersome about packing it. I want to get a PROFILE and try it out since it appears to allow a diver to potentially marry their BP/W with a sidemount sytem. We carry Dive Rite and a little bit of OMS gear in the shop, and I want to gain some experience with the OMS approach, in case we have someone ask for it. So, I was curious about your experience.

 

[georoc01]

Right, I understand that. I believe this is the unit you are referring to (but please correct me if I have misunderstood).

That is why I was asking what was so cumbersome about packing it. I want to get a PROFILE and try it out since it appears to allow a diver to potentially marry their BP/W with a sidemount sytem. We carry Dive Rite and a little bit of OMS gear in the shop, and I want to gain some experience with the OMS approach, in case we have someone ask for it. So, I was curious about your experience.

Yes, that's it, plus you have your BP/Wing. Its more bulky then the systems that just have the buttplate portion. I have been happy with the rig to date but to be honest, I haven't had any experience with smaller, more streamlined options.

 

[EzeeDiver]

The Recon and SMS probably wouldn't taco. The Nomad wing is already positioned in front of the Transpac. It's the tabs that are sewn into it that keep it from tacoing, not the position.

The SMS100 wing is designed to stay close to the body, sandwiched between backplate and your back like Transpac, and it does not taco in any config (from experience). Have also used the Recon and Nomad, and they don't taco either. Just my $0.02.

 

[EzeeDiver]

I am curious. Why wouldn't the resort let you sidemount? Was it just because they didn't want you / anyone using doubles in general? Are you referring the the PROFILE system - the soft plate and buttplate - or to the whole rig (harness, wing, and soft plate)? What was it about the system that seemed bulky? (I am not looking for a way to disagree with you, just trying to evaluate the pros and cons of the OMS rig.)

Guess I should have clarified...they didn't want me using two tanks at the same time and they also weren't familiar with sidemount. I probably could have just sidemounted the one aluminum tank and would have been fine. Still don't see why using two tanks confused them. Best reason I got was that the dive was only 35 min and why bother. I just wanted the practice.

Now, the other operator I used, Divetech, on Grand Cayman, had no issue with it b/c they support tec divers, but I didn't bring my SM regs that day, doh.

FYI, headed out on a Blackbeard cruise in the Bahamas in August, and guess what, they said the only allow single tank dives as well.

Interesting lessons learned. Will need to do some more research in the future to find operators that are more in tune with this...

 

[Colliam7]

Guess I should have clarified...they didn't want me using two tanks at the same time and they also weren't familiar with sidemount.

Thanks. Appreciate the clarification. That's what I figured. I can understand, whether or not I agree with (and I do not), the reluctance of certain resort operators to allow two tanks.

FYI, headed out on a Blackbeard cruise in the Bahamas in August, and guess what, they said the only allow single tank dives as well.

I am curious. Did they have a prohibition of divers using a pony bottle? I ask because I have recently likened diving sidemount to diving backmount with a pony bottle, only in the case of SM the pony happens to be as big as the BM bottle, and therfore offers better balance and trim. Any operator that allows two regulators (a single BM tank and a pony) has no reason to arbitrarily (other than being arbitrary) not allow sidemount. I know, I am probably preaching to the choir - just [-]talking[/-] posting out loud.

 

[EzeeDiver]

I am curious. Did they have a prohibition of divers using a pony bottle? I ask because I have recently likened diving sidemount to diving backmount with a pony bottle, only in the case of SM the pony happens to be as big as the BM bottle, and therfore offers better balance and trim. Any operator that allows two regulators (a single BM tank and a pony) has no reason to arbitrarily (other than being arbitrary) not allow sidemount. I know, I am probably preaching to the choir - just [-]talking[/-] posting out loud.

Interesting question. I didn't take it that far, but seeing as how the dive in question was to 106', might have been interesting if I showed up with a pony for safety on a deep dive. I think I might have argued that point a little further, and maybe I should have, given I'm the one that had to manage the two tanks, and the other divers were typical vacation divers, and three of which I'm not sure were certified. Anyway...I just think the DM didn't know what to say so he said no. Great dive though!

I did discover that if you are an advanced/tech diver, dive with Dive Tech in Grand Cayman at the Cobalt Coast resort. They actually tech Tec there and will let you dive how you want. Sorry this got a little off the OP's topic, good conversation though!

 

[kanonfodr]

Probably not, Halcyon gear tends to have some sort of internal sensor that flips out when its around stroke gear. I tried using a Halcyon primary once in a sidemount cave, the damned thing imploded at the mouth of what was essentially a very tight, hairy firehose of a restriction. I was angry and laughing all at the same time.

Half the above post was made in jest, the other half... not so much :/ I'm sure you can figure out which is which.

So that explains why the Halcyon manifolds on the double AL80s I borrowed one day for my Fundies class HATED my Hog regs. I went through three sets before I found one that would put up with them. The next day I went back to my HP100s with a Thermo manifold and everything was hunky-dory .

Peace,
Greg