What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[TSandM]

It sounds like a reasonable accommodation is being reached.

I may have you wrong, but honestly, from what you have written and the way you have written it, I admire you for quietly sticking to your guns.

I can tell you from experience that you can do a large group trip with someone on it with whom you do not even want to exchange pleasantries, and it can go fine. It's the Japanese eight-fold fence; you simply do not look at what you do not want to see.

 

[gotwake]

Just for curiosity, why didn't you just switch instructors at the LDS?

From your first post, when you talked to the CD, you agreed that you could have done things differently (not that I think you did anything wrong). It just seems that you didn't really give the shop a chance.

Approach is everything. Walking into the LDS and limiting the options to either fire the guy or I'm gone, puts them in a spot. Especially, if this is one of their main instructors. With as much money you were going to spend with them, there is no other good reason. I think if we had the other side of the story, we would find out this is exactly what happened.

 

[TSandM]

I haven't gotten the feeling that hotpuppy wants the instructor fired. I HAVE gotten the feeling that he wants the instructor disciplined or counseled, in order to ensure that no other student experiences this kind of thing -- and I think that's appropriate. I also got the feeling that he felt that, initially, the shop wasn't taking his complaint seriously, but that's no longer the case.

 

[RJP]

Never said he screamed it at me..... doesn't matter if you scream or say it in a normal tone, it's still in appropriate. (Jus sayin).

Instructor is apparently out of town for business and so the very busy LDS Owner hasn't had time to talk to him.... or at least that is what I was told today. I'm fine with that explanation. I do believe that the LDS Owner leads a charmed life from a scheduling perspective. I have some more details that I could share, but it would compromise the identify of the shop.

The conversation today was productive and I did get confirmation that this not acceptable behavior. I was also told that my business is/was appreciated and that in the interest of avoiding any drama they were doing the refunds I had requested. For the most part it was simple enough. There were a couple of parts that were sticky, like the dive trip that's coming up sometime in the next 90 days and the DM and DEMP courses. I indicated that I want to finish DEMP. I also indicated that for the moment I want to break the DM course and I'll reconsider it after a few hundred dives. We both agreed that this made good sense. I expect to pay something for the portion of the DM course that is done.

The offending instructor is scheduled on the trip as well. I told them that I could take or leave the trip and that I didn't have to buddy with the instructor. I told them to use it as a wildcard and if they had someone who wanted in, this could make it affordable for them, and if not, I can go provided we can all behave like adults and move on from this. I reiterated that I am not sleeping with the guy, not going to hold his hand, not eating with him, and don't have to room with him.... so realistically it doesn't matter if we are on the same trip. The group is large enough that we won't be on one boat.

Now, for the record I have not had problems with the rest of the instructors there. So if it turns out to simply be a miscommunication between myself and LDS Owner then I'm willing to work through DEMP (I do like that instructor.... very very detailed and thorough) and handle the rest on a case by case basis to rebuild a working relationship.

That's going to sound a bit strange, so just trust me that I can't give you enough detail to make it unstrange without compromising the shop ID. Just suffice to say that today was productive and we covered the points that had heretofore been missing..... which are: (just so nobody is confused)
- What I described as happening would be inappropriate.
- It should not happen again.
- They are sorry it happened (already done)
- They appreciate my business.

I say "what I described" because everyone can agree that I am describing something. That lets us move forward and not get stuck in a he said - she said. I told them that only one person heard it from start to finish and that everyone else didn't tune in until I chewed the instructor out for multiple insults.

We also talked about the secondary issue and the LDS Owner response to it... which was that the Director of Training (who I thought was the Course Director) didn't really cover my expected points and instead took me to task over some stuff that didn't seem quite right.... (shame on you for having an issue, you abandoned your buddy, use a sep plan from another dive, at another platform with another instructor, etc)

So the bottom line is:
- They are giving me pretty much what I asked for a refund on.
- We need to check logistics and schedules before determining the outcome on the DEMP Class, but I've indicated a willingness to complete some or all of it. (o2 and Adv. o2 simply need a practical skills portion because offending instructor had kidnapped dollies and we couldn't perform the CPR/o2 portion without them so we postponed that portion).
- I indicated that I hadn't set out to fire them, and that I would be willing to try and get past this for the upcoming trip.
- I indicated that if it was simpler, I'd bow out of the trip as well. Worst case is I might be stuck with airfare, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going to Cozumel at some point.
- I got the impression that they had not talked to the Instructor at length.... I asked explicitly about why he had felt compelled to do what he did. I even asked if there had been something wrong with my diving that I needed to know about.

This is pretty much the ideal resolution and the pieces will take some more time to flesh out with the schedules involved. It just goes to show that remaining rational and reasonable makes it easier to resolve things.

"Methinks the diver doth protest too much."

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

"Methinks the diver doth protest too much."

Methinks the diver hath been dragged down a classic Internet rathole ... it takes some practice to see those coming and learn how to avoid them.

At this point, methinks the diver would do well to quietly step out of this discussion and work things out as he best sees fit ... he hath already been given all the useful advice he's likely to get from the conversation ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[FrogManMike]

Side by side often does not work too well in Travis. Following a line or threading your way between submerged trees is easier single file.
Also,the sides slope fairly steeply.When the viz is bad (normal) all the outside diver sees is his buddy

Kind of hard to buddy side by side diving caves too.

 

[dwhthediver]

well if this story is not a good example of why padi should start to teach team diving in a serious way , i dont know what is/ Your buddy is your lifeline and your theirs. if your diving with someone who is oblivious to your distress, then at the very very least your instructor should be attentive at all times to his students.

i dont care if you as a new diver did not follow a protocol that did not exist to begin with. you were in distress and that was all that mattered. You did the right thing, hang on the line, go to the surface / the point is that no one even missed you for how long? where were you ? you could have had a stroke and been on the bottom dead.

this is not your fault and i am so very sorry that you were abused. I know what that feels like.
and I hope that you will consider other all the good agencies out there that stress and teach you team diving .

with respect and i hope you will not give up on yourself
ww

Buddy teams staying together, and the fact that your buddy is your emergancy air source is taught in PADI O/W classes, and I go over it, as well as seperation procedures on EVERY dive brief. If hotpuppy didn't get a debrief as required, that is a standards violation, as PADI requires it on all dives.

 

[Krenath]

Maybe I missed it while reading through the thread, or maybe the OP never witnessed such a thing, but why didn't Bizzaro-instructor bother scream at the OP's so-called buddy for leaving the OP behind?

And how could it possibly have been the OP's fault for leaving the buddy behind? When something's wrong, you don't just continue on down to catch your buddy. Your buddy should be nearby and getting nearer as you go deeper. Instead, he just keeps on going like he wants to dive solo.

 

[Hotpuppy]

I can tell you from experience that you can do a large group trip with someone on it with whom you do not even want to exchange pleasantries, and it can go fine. It's the Japanese eight-fold fence; you simply do not look at what you do not want to see.

I really admire the timeless grains of wisdom that come from Asian cultures. This is a jem!

 

[Hotpuppy]

Buddy teams staying together, and the fact that your buddy is your emergancy air source is taught in PADI O/W classes, and I go over it, as well as seperation procedures on EVERY dive brief. If hotpuppy didn't get a debrief as required, that is a standards violation, as PADI requires it on all dives.

Haven't heard a peep from the instructor.... I thought for a moment when writing to the LDS owner initially.... and then copied the Director of Training (who I mistook as the Course Director) and the Instructor. That is the professional thing to do, let someone know you have an issue in an above board manner. Backstabbing and blindsiding are not cool.