Nekton boats may come back!!

[Nesher]

There are just too many questions and not enough answers.

Who are you for one? If you had a good reputation as both a Captain and Engineer I'm sure former customers would flock to give you their business regardless to how much you charge.

Someone like Capt Nelson would have no problem getting former customers to do business with him. So I'd need to have that question answered for me first.

What percentage of your business plan is counting upon former customers to give you their business? I would be very leery of any capitalization plan that factored or counted upon the return of past business to move into the future.

A capitalization plan for either of those vessels must be based upon a vision of the future, and that means innovation......and innovation will help you develop a new customer base.

The future requires a new name, new itineraries, new customer service models, new employee models, etc, etc..etc....

It may just be me but I don't see how you can go forward being content looking back.

What are you thinking? You're just going to buy the boat, try to fix it up, keep the same name, possibly change itineraries, and people will just come?

Forgive me friend but that sounds familiar....do you hear it? Sounds like JD all over again.

If you want this to work you'd better have the highest standards of care for both the vessel, your customers and the company.

The itinerary is important but a secondary consideration in my opinion.
Nekton ran two - three base itineraries and always had groups of repeat customers.

Lastly and most importantly, I want iron-clad, in writing legal assurances, that JD is not still somewhere in the mix with this so-called new operation. That you two aren't in some type of partnership or alliance.

It's very hard for me to envision a former captain and/or engineer of Nekton capable of putting together the type of capital needed to purchase one of those vessels and run that type of business.

I've been on both the Rorqual and Pilot and the vessels have great potential as dive vessels.

I mean if the Aggressor people were really smart they would buy them both.

The concept of the open dive deck was just awesome. However that's not enough for me to return or for me to endorse it. .

Those vessels were in EXTREMELY BAD condition and the money it will take to either repair, refit or replace certain things is potentially in the tens of millions.

You are asking past customers to accept a great deal of responsibility. Too much in my estimation. You need to get a plan and work your plan.

Don't create a buzz unless you're ready to pull the trigger.

Develop your product first. We'll see if that product is worth our investment.

 

[cappyjon431]

It's very hard for me to envision a former captain and/or engineer of Nekton capable of putting together the type of capital needed to purchase one of those vessels and run that type of business.

Those vessels were in EXTREMELY BAD condition and the money it will take to either repair, refit or replace certain things is potentially in the tens of millions.

I kinda feel the same way. I worked for Nekton for a very long time (by liveaboard standards) and while I left the company with a nice little nest egg (which helped me go back to grad school and buy a new home), the millions of dollars required for a project like this is out of the realm of financial possibility for most folks. Of course it is possible that the OP has some investors lined up that could provide the starting capital, but in these economic times I don't see a whole lot of banks or investors lined up to invest in something as risky as a liveaboard dive boat.

Not sure that I agree that it would cost "tens of millions" to repair and bring up to a workable standard, as a new boat with similar design would cost about 7-8 million, but it would be a sizeable chunk of change to repair and upgrade. Then there is always office/overhead expenses, etc.

It is great to dream and some visionaries actually see their dreams come to fruition. I wish the OP luck because while the task seems financially daunting, it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[LEVIATHAN11]

There are just too many questions and not enough answers.

Who are you for one? If you had a good reputation as both a Captain and Engineer I'm sure former customers would flock to give you their business regardless to how much you charge.

Someone like Capt Nelson would have no problem getting former customers to do business with him. So I'd need to have that question answered for me first.

What percentage of your business plan is counting upon former customers to give you their business? I would be very leery of any capitalization plan that factored or counted upon the return of past business to move into the future.

A capitalization plan for either of those vessels must be based upon a vision of the future, and that means innovation......and innovation will help you develop a new customer base.

The future requires a new name, new itineraries, new customer service models, new employee models, etc, etc..etc....

It may just be me but I don't see how you can go forward being content looking back.

What are you thinking? You're just going to buy the boat, try to fix it up, keep the same name, possibly change itineraries, and people will just come?

Forgive me friend but that sounds familiar....do you hear it? Sounds like JD all over again.

If you want this to work you'd better have the highest standards of care for both the vessel, your customers and the company.

The itinerary is important but a secondary consideration in my opinion.
Nekton ran two - three base itineraries and always had groups of repeat customers.

Lastly and most importantly, I want iron-clad, in writing legal assurances, that JD is not still somewhere in the mix with this so-called new operation. That you two aren't in some type of partnership or alliance.

It's very hard for me to envision a former captain and/or engineer of Nekton capable of putting together the type of capital needed to purchase one of those vessels and run that type of business.

I've been on both the Rorqual and Pilot and the vessels have great potential as dive vessels.

I mean if the Aggressor people were really smart they would buy them both.

The concept of the open dive deck was just awesome. However that's not enough for me to return or for me to endorse it. .

Those vessels were in EXTREMELY BAD condition and the money it will take to either repair, refit or replace certain things is potentially in the tens of millions.

You are asking past customers to accept a great deal of responsibility. Too much in my estimation. You need to get a plan and work your plan.

Don't create a buzz unless you're ready to pull the trigger.

Develop your product first. We'll see if that product is worth our investment.

first, thanks nesher for being the first to speak with any amount of common sense on this subject.

Charter costs to keep that ship running need to be at least 2500 per head and you need to have at LEAST 18 divers per week for it to stay afloat. also nesher's estimate of "tens of millions" is pretty much dead on for refit costs it will definitly be more than ten million to get that boat back on the water. if you can't do that, it isnt worth it and you should get a smaller, more economic vessel for live aboards. also the vessel needs TWO full time REAL engineers (unlike the ones who claim to have been "chief engineer" from the past who let the boat disintegrate into a useless rust bucket, not my opinion but the opinion of everyone who has worked on the Rorqual in the past two years) to keep up on maintenance. The boat requires a more highly paid staff to keep it clean and in shape, and with the amount of traffic it receives, more frequent refits with higher quality materials are necessary.
In order to get this boat back in the water you need more money than god and someone with the leadership and clarity of vision that you lack (once again, not just my opinion, but the opinion of everyone you have worked with. You have only the slightest scintilla of an idea what it actually means to be a captain.)

get in touch with reality is your first step.

stop smearing everyone you have ever worked with is the second, then maybe you would have a reliable group of professionals to contact for assistance when you need it. like now.

third, if you decide to fund this thing, realize you NEED HELP and go to those that can provide it. try to be humble and assess your abilities honestly. you are incapable of management (i know about 25 former crew members that would agree), and need a couple of captains with more tact than you will ever possess. maybe some of the "subordinates" (hah!) who TRAINED YOU might be able to help? not likely, but worth a shot.

I believe the Rorqual is one of the (if not THE) best platforms for diving ever created. If the dive deck were to be affixed to the stern there would be no doubt in my mind. If this rebirth were to be done right, it could be an amazing business opportunity for anyone crazy enough to get involved. The ship is an amazing dive vessel, but very expensive, and the appropriate judgment calls need to be made. If the owners are in closer contact with the vessel, the "big refit" is done properly and sparing no expense, new crew is selected carefully, and new employee models are designed by those who know the operation from the past it stands a better chance of survival. Almost everything about the old operation needs to change, but the old operation must be consulted before improved methods can be implemented.

best of luck to you sir. it can be done, and i honestly do hope you can pull it off, obviously i am concerned with the flimsiness of your current proposals, but if things develop properly you could be in for great success, which i wish for you and all involved in the project.

 

[LEVIATHAN11]

Not sure that I agree that it would cost "tens of millions" to repair and bring up to a workable standard, as a new boat with similar design would cost about 7-8 million, but it would be a sizeable chunk of change to repair and upgrade. Then there is always office/overhead expenses, etc.

i definitely agree with this, it would be cheaper to scrap the rorqual and build a whole new vessel in its image.

 

[cappyjon431]

first, thanks nesher for being the first to speak with any amount of common sense on this subject.

Charter costs to keep that ship running need to be at least 2500 per head and you need to have at LEAST 18 divers per week for it to stay afloat. also nesher's estimate of "tens of millions" is pretty much dead on for refit costs it will definitly be more than ten million to get that boat back on the water. if you can't do that, it isnt worth it and you should get a smaller, more economic vessel for live aboards. also the vessel needs TWO full time REAL engineers (unlike the ones who claim to have been "chief engineer" from the past who let the boat disintegrate into a useless rust bucket, not my opinion but the opinion of everyone who has worked on the Rorqual in the past two years) to keep up on maintenance. The boat requires a more highly paid staff to keep it clean and in shape, and with the amount of traffic it receives, more frequent refits with higher quality materials are necessary.
In order to get this boat back in the water you need more money than god and someone with the leadership and clarity of vision that you lack (once again, not just my opinion, but the opinion of everyone you have worked with. You have only the slightest scintilla of an idea what it actually means to be a captain.)

get in touch with reality is your first step.

stop smearing everyone you have ever worked with is the second, then maybe you would have a reliable group of professionals to contact for assistance when you need it. like now.

third, if you decide to fund this thing, realize you NEED HELP and go to those that can provide it. try to be humble and assess your abilities honestly. you are incapable of management (i know about 25 former crew members that would agree), and need a couple of captains with more tact than you will ever possess. maybe some of the "subordinates" (hah!) who TRAINED YOU might be able to help? not likely, but worth a shot.

I believe the Rorqual is one of the (if not THE) best platforms for diving ever created. If the dive deck were to be affixed to the stern there would be no doubt in my mind. If this rebirth were to be done right, it could be an amazing business opportunity for anyone crazy enough to get involved. The ship is an amazing dive vessel, but very expensive, and the appropriate judgment calls need to be made. If the owners are in closer contact with the vessel, the "big refit" is done properly and sparing no expense, new crew is selected carefully, and new employee models are designed by those who know the operation from the past it stands a better chance of survival. Almost everything about the old operation needs to change, but the old operation must be consulted before improved methods can be implemented.

best of luck to you sir. it can be done, and i honestly do hope you can pull it off, obviously i am concerned with the flimsiness of your current proposals, but if things develop properly you could be in for great success, which i wish for you and all involved in the project.

Wow, a lot of vitriol there, but of course most of us are not privvy to your relationship with the original poster.

I think that anyone with any experience on the Nekton boats knows that this would be a HUGE financial undertaking and while I am an eternal optimist, it will require an incredible amount of time, effort, and money to move this from pipe dream status.

I will say that I believe the overall construction of the Pilot was of much higher quality than that of the Rorqual. I have captained both vessels and I always felt the Pilot handled better in rough sea conditions and was built much sturdier. While the Rorqual looked nicer cosmetically (because she was a newer vessel), the Pilot was built in a "real" shipyard with professional workers just outside of Palatka, Florida. I had many close friends and crewmates who assisted with the construction of the Rorqual and while they were great people and excellent crew mates, they were not professional boatbuilders. The shipyard where the Rorqual was built (Gulf County Shipbuilding) in Port St. Joe was OK for maintenance, but building a vessel like the Rorqual was beyond their technical abilities. In my opinion, this led to an inferior product. There is no doubt in my mind that there were some improvements made on the Rorqual over the Pilot, but in terms of overall construction quality the Rorqual was an inferior boat.

Anyone seriously considering breathing life into one of these two vessels is better off with the Pilot.

 

[snotty yachtie]

as a former employee i have a few suggestions . for starters maybe satellite tv in the salon and on main deck staterooms. hire trained chefs, screen employess better than dixon,have crew wear approved attire,and proper grooming,i.e shave and hair cuts,have a cleaner crew. lay down better ethics for crew to follow. have stewardess to give guests drinks etc. i could go on and on but i think you get the idea. also more maintance on a regular basis.

 

[snotty yachtie]

also make crew time off better 9weeks on makes for higher turnover and less likely to give guests the best service possible

 

[mike_s]

Anyone seriously considering breathing life into one of these two vessels is better off with the Pilot.

I actually wondered why the original poster didn't want to start with the Pilot in the first place? but I'm sure I don't know the whole story.

Also heard 3rd party rumors that the Pilots engines were just "shot" and more work to get back seaworthy.

I do know it's almost been two years since she passed a USCG inspection. So there was 'something' keeping her in the yard.

as a former employee i have a few suggestions . for starters maybe satellite tv in the salon and on main deck staterooms.

I've done several liveboards and will say that I've never watched TV while on them. I don't see this being a big issue. But I'm sure some folks would like it to watch the news or something.

However, last one I was on was during the fall and I sure missed not being able to watch a football game that I wanted to see. (Thank GOD for TIVO!) I definitely would have watched it that night.

 

[LEVIATHAN11]

Wow, a lot of vitriol there, but of course most of us are not privvy to your relationship with the original poster.

I think that anyone with any experience on the Nekton boats knows that this would be a HUGE financial undertaking and while I am an eternal optimist, it will require an incredible amount of time, effort, and money to move this from pipe dream status.

I will say that I believe the overall construction of the Pilot was of much higher quality than that of the Rorqual. I have captained both vessels and I always felt the Pilot handled better in rough sea conditions and was built much sturdier. While the Rorqual looked nicer cosmetically (because she was a newer vessel), the Pilot was built in a "real" shipyard with professional workers just outside of Palatka, Florida. I had many close friends and crewmates who assisted with the construction of the Rorqual and while they were great people and excellent crew mates, they were not professional boatbuilders. The shipyard where the Rorqual was built (Gulf County Shipbuilding) in Port St. Joe was OK for maintenance, but building a vessel like the Rorqual was beyond their technical abilities. In my opinion, this led to an inferior product. There is no doubt in my mind that there were some improvements made on the Rorqual over the Pilot, but in terms of overall construction quality the Rorqual was an inferior boat.

Anyone seriously considering breathing life into one of these two vessels is better off with the Pilot.

believe me, any vitriol is beyond warranted. this industry is too small for disloyalty and anyone who thinks they can stick a knife in your back without you finding out about it has proven their incompetence. the fact that anyone has taken any time to even consider these claims as a possibility strikes me as funny, knowing the character who is making them personally...

I only ever captained the Rorqual, but used to work with nelson and heard very similar statements from him as to the pilot's dominance. the layout on the rorqual may have been better, but the seaworthiness of the pilot was said to be superior. the only problem with that is, you have to consider the amount of time the owner was responsible for its upkeep in comparison to the rorqual (in respect to it's current condition for a refit). basically the longer that man owned something the more time it has had to be mistreated.

either way, im done with nekton, and im done with their gigantic nightmares for vessels. as grateful as i may be for the employment and all that i learned while working there, i'm glad that it's over. i just wish i had gotten out a few months sooner when i originally had planned, then i wouldn't be out 5 grand due to the bankruptcy.

 

[Damselfish]

I don't see TV as a plus. (This might make an interesting poll.) We don't watch TV on dive trips on principal, actually if there is a TV my husband is prone to throw a beach towel over it. The only thing I would be tempted by is the Weather Channel. If we've got a TV in our cabin on a liveaboard it might occasionally get used to look at pictures but not even to watch a DVD. The Aggressor and PH seem to be going the way of installing flat panels in all the cabins during upgrades and it seems like a waste to me. Now if I were crew, I could see the appeal of satellite TV.

Now something resembling real internet access (not the special text only marine email crap) I might be interested in. Though maybe not for what you'd probably have to charge.